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Sales mistakes that software engineers make

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Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#91

Post by 0xferruccio »

mrtksn wrote: post #70
0xferruccio wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oracle to the CIA. Also I don’t think there is a right way of doing a startup, there’s no guide you can follow or rules. What I’m saying is that addressing real problems and talking with people that have the authority and budget to address them before building something seems like a good way to minimize risk for b2b ventures.

>Oracle to the CIA. I was unable to confirm it. Anyway the advice of sell first build later and talk to customers sound very smart, it's just that it I don't see much of success stories based on that process. On the other hand, build something basic, put it in front of the people, measure and iterate based on the measurements have so many examples. Like pretty much everything out there. So yes, the stuff on the artic…

Tuft and Needle started selling with a fake landing page to validate their idea.

Once they got their first sale for a mattress they started working on the company. (source: their indiehackers interview)

Hotjar started a super successful referral campaign before having a working product.

Pietr Levels validated features with a fake credit card form to see if people would pay for some membership.

And there are countless other examples. Building a landing page that explains the product or a proof of concept isn’t building the product, if something can help you give the idea of what you have in mind build it.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#92

Post by jononor »

lozzo wrote: post #42
bambax wrote: post #24

> Sales Mistake #1 - Building Before you Start Selling (...) If you’re wrong, you’ll save time and money by not building something people don’t want. I fell into this trap often, so I know it well. The reason why we don't ask first is, we want to build something . Anything. If we're "wrong", we won't "save" time and money, we will delay the moment we start making, maybe indefinitely. What if we never find something p…

Very lucid comment. I would just object to your harsh "it's irrational and probably stupid..." final remark. It's not irrational and stupid. Building something allows you to sharpen your skills, validate your abilities, engage you to the problem you want to solve for real. cheers

Sometimes one pretends to build the thing for someone else, when its first and foremost for oneself. That can be a bit irrational but also often unnecessary - there is nothing wrong with making something for oneself.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#93

Post by thrav »

rawoke083600 wrote: post #65

I guess its obvious now but when I demo'ed/try-to-sale my software projects I would spend 15 min showing "the guy" all the features.. INSTEAD of listing and teasing-out the ONE requirement/problem the guy had and THEN spending 15 min showing him how the software will fix he's one big problem.

This is the art of the demo. If you don’t have 1-3 big problems that you’re about to show the customer how you’ll solve, you’re just shouting into the void.

If customers won’t tell me what problems they’re trying to solve, I adopt a very monotonous cadence and tone and repeatedly say, “I can keep going through standard features, but this would be a lot more useful for both of us if you could tell me a bit more about your needs.”

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#94

Post by maxlybbert »

fuball63 wrote: post #56

I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to. The article suggests doing a search for potential companies, finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails. But what about experimental technologies or developer tools? I wouldn't expect a lot of success with a slow movin…

Steve Blank’s book “Four Steps to the Epiphany” has advice on getting those contacts (and stories of people who finally asked “if we gave this to you for free, would you use it?” only to be told “no”).

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#95

Post by mattferderer »

fuball63 wrote: post #56

I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to. The article suggests doing a search for potential companies, finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails. But what about experimental technologies or developer tools? I wouldn't expect a lot of success with a slow movin…

> there's no way to search "startups using x" for a generic technology, like serverless or NoSQL.

1. Make a list of companies & products that implement "serverless" or "NoSQL" or X.

2. There are plenty of tools that search websites to see what they're using. They tend to work better for frontend tech than back though. Sometimes backend tech is visible though. Here's a nice compiled list based off a quick Google Search - https://geekflare.com/what-technology-website-using/

3. Search job boards, industry forums, social media, chat channels (Slack/Gitter/etc), videos, online in general for any mention of those products. You'll get a list of companies using them. Forums, social media & chats will help you see what issues your users are having with them & allow you to build relationships without "cold calling".

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#96

Post by 666lumberjack »

fuball63 wrote: post #56

I fall into the "Build before talking to customers" trap constantly. Even though I know it's "wrong", it is hard to escape it because of the simple problem of not knowing who to talk to. The article suggests doing a search for potential companies, finding contacts on linkedin, and sending out some emails. But what about experimental technologies or developer tools? I wouldn't expect a lot of success with a slow movin…

>there's no way to search "startups using x" for a generic technology, like serverless or NoSQL

Are you aware of stackshare.io? It's not perfect for what you're asking - you have to search for specific tools rather than categories like NoSQL - but if I understand your goal correctly it seems like something that'd be useful to you.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#97

Post by mrtksn »

0xferruccio wrote: post #91
mrtksn wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Oracle to the CIA. I was unable to confirm it. Anyway the advice of sell first build later and talk to customers sound very smart, it's just that it I don't see much of success stories based on that process. On the other hand, build something basic, put it in front of the people, measure and iterate based on the measurements have so many examples. Like pretty much everything out there. So yes, the stuff on the artic…

Tuft and Needle started selling with a fake landing page to validate their idea. Once they got their first sale for a mattress they started working on the company. (source: their indiehackers interview) Hotjar started a super successful referral campaign before having a working product. Pietr Levels validated features with a fake credit card form to see if people would pay for some membership. And there are countless…

Cool, thank you!

I think I took the "selling" word a bit too literally.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#98

Post by neolefty »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #45
tilt_error wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It all comes down to domain knowledge, I believe, where it is hard to provide good solutions without actually knowing anything about the type of problems being under scrutiny. There are other types of generic problems, e.g. word processing, but those domains are often overpopulated with solutions where it is either hard to compete or hard to earn money. The point you are making is that it is worthwhile to invest in u…

It's not just the problem domain though - there are issues that are very specific in the 'real world' that are not apparent to those even who understand the problem domain well, especially if it's a true B2B style product. Second, is understanding the mindset and uses cases of buyers. Tech people tend to way over-estimate the sophistication of users, and also underestimate how hard it often it is to do basic things.…

Wow, no wonder Box is doing well — that's a main problem they solve. I didn't really understand its value without hearing your predicament.

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#99

Post by duxup »

I don't entirely disagree, but I've seen taking these concepts too far blow up just as often as building without input (at least in my experience).

In those cases a company finally gets a customer, usually a big one(s) (everyone sees mega dollar signs and maybe they get a taste of it), and then that customer monopolizes the development demands to the point that the product and development are laser focused on the whims of a company or handful of companies, and not something that everyone else who isn't engaged in the process will buy.

It gets worse when those companies don't REALLY know what they will actually buy or keep long term, as they're used to effectively just picking from a list of what is available. When given a chance to influence development they often will make odd corner case choices that are legit annoyances with existing products or their own problems.... but absolutely won't sell the product at the end of the day or over keep them as a customer the long term. They won't tell you what really works already because they only really recall problems with past products.

It's a delicate balance. Getting user input is hugely important, but they're not going to tell you the truth all the time, and they don't always know it. Sales guys, also don't necessarily know what it is either.

I've been on both ends where I was all "OMFG engineering did you think about how people use this!?!? Did you ask anyone??" and "This product is now only useful to one company because all we do is take user input and make widgets what the hell is going on???"

Re: Sales mistakes that software engineers make

#100

Post by 0xferruccio »

mrtksn wrote: post #97
0xferruccio wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tuft and Needle started selling with a fake landing page to validate their idea. Once they got their first sale for a mattress they started working on the company. (source: their indiehackers interview) Hotjar started a super successful referral campaign before having a working product. Pietr Levels validated features with a fake credit card form to see if people would pay for some membership. And there are countless…

Cool, thank you! I think I took the "selling" word a bit too literally.

Happy this conversation helped you :)

I find this topic to be really sensitive to me as I find that the first impact with the customer is always a big reality check for every idea I have.

I often find myself building what “I think” people/companies want, but I think it’s healthy to try and build what they’re already willing to pay for!

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