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The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

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Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#91

Post by coldtea »

exabrial wrote: post #8

What I found really interesting when I there earlier this year was that the ethnic Chinese complained quite a bit about the strict laws, but the ethnic British or Malaysian didn't seem to be bothered by the plethora of laws, the didn't really seem to interfere with their daily life

Well, if you're a British executive or similar well-off job, it's not like laws restrict your daily life. Between your company, the expensive hangouts, the mall shopping, and the country club, you come so little in contact with them, you might as well live in London or New York.

If you're one of the statistically poorer ethnic Chinese or Malay, hustling to make a living, working in hawker centers, peddling some ware, running some small shop, trying to make a living, etc, you're more likely to brush with various laws and restrictions.

Some cultures also dislike restrictions more, and paradoxically that's truer for Chinese culture I find, than for British. Chinese culture might be ok with strong government and even straight-out dictatorship, but they are more laid-back, cheaty, work-aroundy etc in their day to day life (consider London vs Beijing driving for a crude example, or queue lines). I guess, less "by the book" is the term I was looking for.

(And yes, these are generalizations -- they're needed to talk about the world in any other way than on a case by case basis)

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#92

Post by EmbarrassedFuel »

Reason077 wrote: post #80

In London, the “war on litter bins” (removal of litter bins from train stations and central areas, supposedly to prevent them being misused by terrorists) has created a culture of simply leaving litter on the floor or in the street because there are no bins to put it in. Perhaps that’s ok in busy central locations where a street cleaner will be along shortly to pick it up, but the problem is that people are now accus…

The bin removal was actually prompted by a period when the IRA would put bombs into bins in train stations etc., see eg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bomb_attacks

So not a completely idiotic policy.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#93

Post by woutr_be »

jernfrost wrote: post #75

Is not Japan similarly clean and they do it without lots of fines and cheap Labour. They do it through the upbringing and linking cleanliness to morality. I have not been either place but maybe somebody who have can compare to cleanliness of both places?

I think Japan is slightly different tho, from what I understand, they take a lot of pride in how they're presented to others. So whatever an individual does, reflects bad on the entire culture in their eyes.

Not a lot of people have this mentality.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#94

Post by sonnyblarney »

'Messy' and 'dirty' are very different things.

Not returning your dishes is a different thing from littering.

If it's custom in a locale, it seems reasonable to leave your plates ... it's what we do at regular restaurants.

But not throwing rubbish in the streets - this is universally a good thing.

I sometimes see people throwing water or coke bottles out of their car here in Montreal I find it maddening that someone could be so crude.

Kids and Teachers doing a one-over, such a great idea. I believe it's probably strongly linked to creating conscientious behaviour overall.

I also believe there are strong psychological effects (i.e. 'broken windows') - if people see a slum, I think they're more likely to treat it as such, and visa-versa.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#95

Post by Reason077 »

EmbarrassedFuel wrote: post #92
Reason077 wrote: post #80

In London, the “war on litter bins” (removal of litter bins from train stations and central areas, supposedly to prevent them being misused by terrorists) has created a culture of simply leaving litter on the floor or in the street because there are no bins to put it in. Perhaps that’s ok in busy central locations where a street cleaner will be along shortly to pick it up, but the problem is that people are now accus…

The bin removal was actually prompted by a period when the IRA would put bombs into bins in train stations etc., see eg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bomb_attacks So not a completely idiotic policy.

For a while there was a solution involving “hoop” bins with clear plastic bags so you could see what was inside them.

But recent terror attacks (which used knives and vehicles, not bins) prompted their removal again.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#96

Post by stephengillie »

coldtea wrote: post #87
Paraesthetic wrote: post #34

One thing that always impressed me about Singapore was that they incinerated all their garbage, then they collected the emissions from that furnace to power the city, and used the by products again. Brilliant

Well, they drink their own piss too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEWater

Just like astronauts.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#97

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Sureai wrote: post #25
mediumdeviation wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regarding disposable plates and utensils, I actually don't see much of them unless you ask for takeout. I suspect in the area you're in the cost of dish washing is more expensive than the cost of plates and refuse collection. A tax on disposables would be great. Singapore is actually getting better on reducing disposables, though slower than I would like. Cashiers don't double bag items anymore, and try to pack as mu…

I had one metallic straw in a fancy cocktail bar. The rest were plastic. Not to say, that I get a plastic cup full of ice with a plastic straw when I order a green tea, which comes in a can and is already ice cold. For the litter I see the most: part of plastic bags and Dasani water bottles. I hope the change in trash management, recycling and maybe trash separation does not only start with the rich people here, but…

Metallic straw? Like, reusable? Fairly sure that wouldn't fly anywhere else, I mean, even plastic straws are individually packaged right now due to hygiene considerations.

Disposable plastic > poorly cleaned reusables.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#98

Post by Cthulhu_ »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #94

'Messy' and 'dirty' are very different things. Not returning your dishes is a different thing from littering. If it's custom in a locale, it seems reasonable to leave your plates ... it's what we do at regular restaurants. But not throwing rubbish in the streets - this is universally a good thing. I sometimes see people throwing water or coke bottles out of their car here in Montreal I find it maddening that someone…

I love those clips on e.g. youtube where someone picks up the trash and throws it back in their face. Littering is illegal pretty much everywhere, but it's hard to enforce because there's not police everywhere.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#99

Post by stale2002 »

tallanvor wrote: post #83
Reason077 wrote: post #80

In London, the “war on litter bins” (removal of litter bins from train stations and central areas, supposedly to prevent them being misused by terrorists) has created a culture of simply leaving litter on the floor or in the street because there are no bins to put it in. Perhaps that’s ok in busy central locations where a street cleaner will be along shortly to pick it up, but the problem is that people are now accus…

The people who litter are the same ones who littered before the trash cans were removed. The only difference is that some of them were willing to walk a couple of steps to throw things away. We need to teach common decency, adults need to set better examples, and the cops walking the street need to start ticketing people for littering - whether it's a fast food bag or a cigarette butt.

Or maybe instead of that we make it easy for people to not litter?

If something is easy, then you get into the habit of doing it without even thinking about it.

Re: The cost of keeping Singapore squeaky clean

#100

Post by matthewmacleod »

coldtea wrote: post #84
Reason077 wrote: post #80

In London, the “war on litter bins” (removal of litter bins from train stations and central areas, supposedly to prevent them being misused by terrorists) has created a culture of simply leaving litter on the floor or in the street because there are no bins to put it in. Perhaps that’s ok in busy central locations where a street cleaner will be along shortly to pick it up, but the problem is that people are now accus…

> In London, the “war on litter bins” (removal of litter bins from train stations and central areas, supposedly to prevent them being misused by terrorists) That is not the dumbest idea I have ever heard of. But it's close.

You're missing that these bins _were_ used in IRA bombings in London, and it turns out that the flying shrapnel from a heavy exploding bin is quite dangerous.

Lighter-weight solutions were later introduced that limited the ability to place large objects in bins, or substituted large bins for clear plastic bags supported on a frame. These are still reasonably prevalent, though there could definitely stand to be more of them around London.

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