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MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

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Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#91

Post by DannyBee »

tptacek wrote: post #86
DannyBee wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i mean to be fair that's the big problem with most licenses as "not written very well" covers almost all problems with contracts :) Like the LGPL is confusing because it is not written well in some sense. But that goes to "confusing" instead of "unenforceable". But yes, better written the problem with this license would just be "They are trying to claim things they know they can't claim" instead of "they are actually…

Sorry, I just meant: "a more conscientious lawyer could have straightforwardly drafted that contract to avoid some of its major problems". Like, the subtext of the question is, if I was MongoDB, and stipulating that I didn't create unreasonable work conditions like "get it done in a day", should I be pissed at my lawyer? Additional question: if you can fix that problem with the contract with a "to the extent possible…

Yes, they could have. So yes, you should be pissed at your lawyer if they didn't warn you.

In my experience, the lawyers mostly warned the clients and the clients did it anyway.

Part of being a lawyer is simultaneously taking the blame for stuff like that while having done very careful diligence so that your malpractice insurance rates don't go up from clients successfully suing you :)

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#92

Post by wvenable »

_verandaguy wrote: post #21
GiorgioG wrote: post #3

Use Postgres, problem solved.

While I like relational data and I _love_ Postgres specifically, there are some tasks and contexts for which non-relational stores are better suited.

> there are some tasks and contexts for which non-relational stores are better suited.

And if you have one of those tasks I congratulate you on finding a project with particularly unique data needs.

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#93

Post by rlaanemets »

princekolt wrote: post #71

Okay so after reading the article, and thinking about this for a while, I get the following out of this debacle: The issue here is that SaaS providers are building tools on top of MongoDB that effectively add functionality, instead of modifying MongoDB (which would force them to share those changes publicly). This is a valid concern and I understand the motivation behind the license change. However, how is this diffe…

I understand the difference is that Nginx Inc. as a company is not in the business of providing a blogging platform or e-commerce hosting while MongoDB Inc. is actually providing SaaS (MongoDB Atlas) which I believe is their major revenue source.

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#94

Post by [deleted] »

mindcrime wrote: post #16

Yeah, I'm not necessarily opposed to the general spirit of what they're trying to do here, but this license just doesn't make sense in practice. Now that I've had more time to look at it, I'd really recommend that everybody stay the f%!# away from MongoDB. This bit in particular really hits the nail on the head: Let's assume that it is ok somehow to pass forward other open source software, solving that problem. What…

[deleted]

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#95

Post by dang »

haggy wrote: post #15
GiorgioG wrote: post #3

Use Postgres, problem solved.

Please take your unhelpful comments elsewhere

Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules when posting here, regardless of how unhelpful another comment is (or feels). Uncivil swipes in particular are not ok.

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#96

Post by VanL »

DannyBee wrote: post #88
VanL wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting thing about misuse, is that it prevents the enforcement of the copyright against even non-parties until the misuse has been dealt with. Practically, that is probably dealt with via a blog post and a retreat to the AGPL, but still.

"Interesting thing about misuse, is that it prevents the enforcement of the copyright against even non-parties until the misuse has been dealt with." Interesting. I've never delved that far into misuse but that makes sense. Is that piece a US specific thing or common in others? As you say it would not have too much practical effect since it's curable trivially. You'd get a few hours of unrestricted mongo use, maybe,…

Probably US only, didn't look internationally.

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#97

Post by toomuchtodo »

kstrauser wrote: post #50
simias wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You use their code for free and call them "idiotic or malevolent" when they make it harder for you to use their code for free. I can completely understand the frustration of their users if this move makes their life harder but it's still pretty entitled of you to insult them because they changed the license to something you don't like. It's perfectly understandable if you decide not to use their software because you…

There is a decent chance that they’re using code I’ve written, and I haven’t seen a penny from them. Have you? Has anyone? I think it’s either: - Idiotic, because they meant well but managed to shoot themselves in the foot by making their software unviable, or - Malevolent, because they’re using this as a wedge to either force you into a pay-or-lose-it situation, while still trying to paint themselves as FOSS.

Because you don’t feel others are freeloading on you does not mean software consumers aren’t freeloading.

You’re free to change your licenses (or not), just as other projects are (but should).

It’s time the free ride and expectations of charity by for-profit users ends.

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#98

Post by vishvananda »

nebulous1 wrote: post #77
ninkendo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a question about how derivative works are defined with respect to AGPL. With the GPL, you couldn't distribute software that links (at runtime) to GPL software, without open-sourcing your software as well. This is because, linking another piece of software to a GPL'd binary means you're creating a "derived work". That's why they made the LGPL (the "lesser" public license) which allows being linked to from close…

I think you're slightly off there. The AGPL doesn't apply to software accessing the AGPL licenced software over a network, it applies to the AGPL software that's being accessed. As in it applies when the software is being accessed over the network rather than when it's being distributed (as with the GPL). This is actually mentioned in the article.

I think you have this correct, as I understand it. Just to explicitly state the differences:

1. You can modify GPL code as much as you want, and as long as you don't distribute the software, you do not need to make the modifications available. If you distribute the software, you are required to make your code available.

2. The AGPL extends the definition of distributing the software to making the software available over the network. This means if you modify AGPL software and then make it available over the network (as SaaS, for example), then you are required to make your code available.

Re: MongoDB's Server Side Public License Is Likely Unenforceable

#99

Post by anticensor »

zzzcpan wrote: post #64
VanL wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. There are administrative problems with the AGPL, which are inherited here. But it is the scope of this license that pulls in these new defenses.

I'm sure they will address your concerns in SSPL v2. But make no mistake, you can't win here.

I will then create Anticensor's Public License, stating everything interacting with said work must be licensed under the same license.
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