How the Finnish survive without small talk • Hacker News Board

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#91

Post by darkerside » Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 4:46 PM UTC

lasagnaphil wrote: post #24

chrisseaton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just an educated formality rather than a sincere conversation So small talk, then.

I think it is a little different than smalltalk. When people smalltalk, no matter how shallow the conversation is, there is still an intention to “get to know” with each other. But in the cashier example, the cashier does not have any goal to forge a relationship with the customer, but will repeat the same thing over and over because that’s what they’re told to do in the manuals.

Because it's the polite etiquette, not because they are programmed like robots.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#92

Post by SilasX » Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 4:47 PM UTC

illuminati1911 wrote: post #7

(I’m a Finn) I didn’t know what small talk was until I went to study abroad. Most of my foreign classmates often asked me things like ”how are you doing?” etc. and when I literally answered them what I had been up to recently they were very confused. ”Dude...no need to tell your life story, just say ’good’ and that’s it” I replied ”Why do you ask a question if you don’t care about the answer?” I learned the hard way,…

Am 36yo American, lived here all my life. It still feels dissonant not to give a substantive answer to "how are you".

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#93

Post by ghaff » Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 4:50 PM UTC

eesmith wrote: post #55

bluetomcat wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A similar kind of formality used to be a thing in Western culture, at least up until the 1980s. Watch any kind of TV show from back then and notice the formality in the clothing of presenters, the substantially more discernible pronunciation, the vocabulary. The cultural shift towards informality is a recent trend in the West.

One should be careful basing observations on what is shown on TV. As an extreme example, it would suggest that most couples did not sleep on the same bed during the 1950s. There was also a cultural fashion in the US to use a "Mid-Atlantic accent". Quoting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-Atlantic_accent : > The Mid-Atlantic accent, or Transatlantic accent,[1][2][3] is a consciously acquired accent of English, intend…

That's true although professional dress is definitely more casual in the US (for the most part) than it was 20-30 years ago. When I started with a tech company in the mid-80s, suits were pretty much the norm for marketing and sales and even many in engineering. It would have been strange for the most part to, say, give a presentation at a conference without being dressed that way.

These days, in tech certainly but across many industries, "dressing up" is mostly an outlier.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#94

Post by SilasX » Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 4:51 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #15

lasagnaphil wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Japanese clerk’s elaborate script is just an educated formality rather than a sincere conversation...

> just an educated formality rather than a sincere conversation So small talk, then.

No. Small talk is, by definition, incidental to the functional, "business" parts of the transaction. It excludes things like: "Your total is $X". "Out of the $Y you gave me, your change is ..." -- i.e., the things the GP was describing in Japan.

Edit: "Welcome to the store [some mini sales pitch]" might count as small talk, but is not what most people have in mind.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#95

Post by hrktb » Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 4:53 PM UTC

thekingofh wrote: post #90

Silence is great, but there's something more to small talk than just filling silence. Small talk primes the pump for some good conversation. I can't tell you how many times I've come across great conversations and tidbits of information that I'd never have if I didn't chat up with some kind of nonsense to start the conversation. Or alternatively if someone else didn't. The initial part of the conversation is useless,…

I feel this is in the same vein as asking every girl on the street if she wants to have a drink.

That definitely can be one way to meet one’s life partner. But it’s so grating from the other side, even if the request is very polite and non pushy.

Some people live for the human contact, others don’t want any. Honestly it’s a PITA when the social norm puts an obligation to respond, even briefly, to not seem rude.

If it’s a protocol, there should be an option to just drop the incomming packets and go on with one’s life.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#96

Post by nyc111 » Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 4:53 PM UTC

fi358 wrote: post #52

Sometimes in Finland you see people from countries like USA talking with each other endlessly and often quite loudly. Many of us Finns find it annoying as it is against local customs (it resembles situation where somebody comes too close to my personal space). This constant chit-chat prevents me concentrating on my own thoughts. I wouldn't mind if they would talk about some important things or keep their chit-chat sh…

It looks like I would love to live in Finland! I'm always annoyed by passengers in the bus talking loudly while I try to read my book. This is very common. Commuters are very noisy in Turkey. Also I wonder if in Finland they announce stations in public transportation. Like "next station is blah blah..." Here in Turkey in big cities they even announce stations in Turkish and in English! So annoying.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#97

Post by draw_down » Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 4:55 PM UTC

I think often people who have such big problems with small talk are not appreciating what it actually is and what it's for. I'm sorry but I actively do not want to solve life's big mysteries with you while we wait in the bank line. There are lots of times in life where what is being communicated and what is being said are different, I don't see why that distinction is more of a problem in the case of small talk than anywhere else.

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#98

Post by fmihaila » Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 4:57 PM UTC

illuminati1911 wrote: post #7

(I’m a Finn) I didn’t know what small talk was until I went to study abroad. Most of my foreign classmates often asked me things like ”how are you doing?” etc. and when I literally answered them what I had been up to recently they were very confused. ”Dude...no need to tell your life story, just say ’good’ and that’s it” I replied ”Why do you ask a question if you don’t care about the answer?” I learned the hard way,…

I am not a Finn, but I can relate. The current discussion reminds me of this NYT article on this very subject:

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/20/opinion/the-how-are-you-c...

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#99

Post by SilasX » Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

Random thought: I can't find it, so how do they translate the intro to Return of the Jedi?

Moff Jerjerrod: Lord Vader. This is an unexpected pleasure. We are honored by your presence.

Darth Vader: You may dispense with the pleasantries, Commander. I am here to put you back on schedule.

Is Jerjerrod's line something they wouldn't say? Would it be confusing that someone would need to tell someone to skip the pleasantries?

Re: How the Finnish survive without small talk

#100

Post by unstuckdev » Fri, Oct 19, 2018, 5:01 PM UTC

bluetomcat wrote: post #59

fi358 wrote: post #52

Sometimes in Finland you see people from countries like USA talking with each other endlessly and often quite loudly. Many of us Finns find it annoying as it is against local customs (it resembles situation where somebody comes too close to my personal space). This constant chit-chat prevents me concentrating on my own thoughts. I wouldn't mind if they would talk about some important things or keep their chit-chat sh…

The constant chit-chat is at the surface of this phenomenon, it's the general hyperactivity of Americans that strikes me as an eastern European. Always moving around restlessly while holding a drink, overacting and commenting after any kind of trivial situation around them, something that most people would not care about at all.

I call those people annoying. I was born and raised and have lived my entire life in the US. I'm quiet, still, and prefer the same in the people around me. You can't assess over 300 million people by the few who can afford to travel.