You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping • Hacker News Board

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#91

Post by prophesi » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

frereubu wrote: post #49

dwater wrote: post #29

Not tipping in America rarely if ever gets you poor service. You have to return to the same business and happen to get served by the same server enough times for them to remember you. It does deprive the server of a living wage.

A British friend of mine was chased down the street and harangued by a waitress when he tipped 10% (pretty standard in the UK for decent-if-not-amazing service). I get the feeling they'd remember someone who left a tip which was that underwhelming, let alone no tip, wouldn't they?

Was this a small family-owned cafe? I know a lot of people in the service industry who would love to chase down certain customers down the street if they were allowed to.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#92

Post by undersuit » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

dwater wrote: post #29

Not tipping in America rarely if ever gets you poor service. You have to return to the same business and happen to get served by the same server enough times for them to remember you. It does deprive the server of a living wage.

>It does deprive the server of a living wage.

Then maybe the server should tell the customer how much they need to be tipped?

"Welcome to AppleBees. My name is Trevor and I need an additional $24.89 in tips today so that my employer isn't obligated to pay me the minimum wage for this state."

Also, should I be under-tipping waitstaff that I think are rich enough?

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#93

Post by jjuhl » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:26 PM UTC

laken wrote: post #74

jjuhl wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's simply not my problem. Why should I care? If they are unhappy with their wages they should complain to their employer. It's not my job to fix their wages.

Due to how US wage laws work for "service" employees, you _are_ somewhat of an "employer" while they're servicing you. You pay them a tip for their service. If you don't want to tip, you don't get served a sit-down meal. Stiffing is a serious asshole move, and it doesn't contribute anything positive.

Luckily I don't care one iota about that. And my bank balance likes me for it. You seem to be obsessed with how other people view your actions. I'm not. Simple as that.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#94

Post by eesmith » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

tfha wrote: post #33

CryoLogic wrote: post #19

If anyone here has been to Japan, tipping is handled much more elegantly and with a lot more business integrity. Instead of guilt-tripping customers into tipping, businesses in Japan up their prices if they need more money. I remember once when I was in Osaka I was at a really good sushi place that I had visited several times prior. There was no tip option on the receipt (didn't see it anywhere in Japan) and there wa…

In Japan, a tip can often even been seen as offensive. "What, you work at a curry shop? Here's a few hundred yen you poor thing." sort of message that is implied by tipping.

Used to be that way in the US too. Quoting from https://www.marketplace.org/2016/04/22/world/ugly-history-ti... :

> Tipping actually originated in the aristocratic homes of feudal Europe.... When tips came to the United States in the late 1850s, 1860s, there was a massive anti-tipping movement. It was actually considered to be undemocratic, un-American.... Well that movement, which came right around the time of the emancipation of the slaves, was squashed by the restaurant industry, which argued that they should have the right to hire newly freed slaves and not pay them anything as valueless people and essentially let them live on customer tips. And so many of the first tipped workers in the United States were former slaves.

And from https://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magazine/12tipping-t.html... :

> After the Civil War, wealthy Americans began traveling to Europe in significant numbers, and they brought the tip home with them to demonstrate their worldliness. But the United States, unlike Europe, had no aristocratic tradition, and as tipping spread — like “evil insects and weeds,” The New York Times claimed in 1897 — many thought it was antithetical to American democratic ideals. “Tipping, and the aristocratic idea it exemplifies, is what we left Europe to escape,”

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#95

Post by pbiggar » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

n1000 wrote: post #16

Haha. Glad to see this. I’m new to the US and thought the tip was expected...

Some advice from a less recent immigrant: tip everywhere. It's much simpler than figuring out the rules, esp (as the existence of the article points out) the rules change.

The old 15% became 20%. The places you used to tip (solely personal service situations like a waiter or hairdresser) became everywhere.

If it was done right, everyone would be paid well, there would be no tips, and your stuff would just cost 20% more. I find it simpler to just tip 20% on everything.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#96

Post by pesmhey » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

tfha wrote: post #33

CryoLogic wrote: post #19

If anyone here has been to Japan, tipping is handled much more elegantly and with a lot more business integrity. Instead of guilt-tripping customers into tipping, businesses in Japan up their prices if they need more money. I remember once when I was in Osaka I was at a really good sushi place that I had visited several times prior. There was no tip option on the receipt (didn't see it anywhere in Japan) and there wa…

In Japan, a tip can often even been seen as offensive. "What, you work at a curry shop? Here's a few hundred yen you poor thing." sort of message that is implied by tipping.

That sentiment is baked into the culture here. I will never not tip a barista for handing me a muffin.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#97

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

bootlooped wrote: post #7

I dislike the tip-at-purchase-time paradigm. I haven't even seen my order yet, how am I supposed to evaluate how much of a tip it warranted? But that gets to the heart of it really: tipping is more about subsidizing payroll than rewarding good service.

> I dislike the tip-at-purchase-time paradigm.

The tip at purchase time paradigm is in many cases an artifact of integrating credit card workflows with cash businesses with established pay up front and tip after workflows (fast casual dining, etc.) If you are against it and not against tipping, just bring cash for tipping and tip on the back end.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#98

Post by Humdeee » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:27 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #41

After all, those muffins just materialized in the display case, everything here functions so seamlessly that I don't really know why these self-styled 'employees' are cluttering up the place.

Shelving product labour is part of the original price and markup, same as buying an article of clothing off a rack.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#99

Post by 5874-4b22-a4e0 » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:28 PM UTC

frereubu wrote: post #49

dwater wrote: post #29

Not tipping in America rarely if ever gets you poor service. You have to return to the same business and happen to get served by the same server enough times for them to remember you. It does deprive the server of a living wage.

A British friend of mine was chased down the street and harangued by a waitress when he tipped 10% (pretty standard in the UK for decent-if-not-amazing service). I get the feeling they'd remember someone who left a tip which was that underwhelming, let alone no tip, wouldn't they?

When dealing with 8 or so tables, I generally wouldn't be able to remember who sat where unless they were particularly notable, ex. extra messy, or annoying. I'd generally get decent tips too. few dollars - five dollars on a buffet lunch meal ranging from $8 a person.

That said, its just the right thing to do for servers are trying their best. Finding a few dollars per table makes their day a little brighter.

Re: You Want 20% for Handing Me a Muffin? The Awkward Etiquette of iPad Tipping

#100

Post by PunchTornado » Wed, Oct 17, 2018, 6:28 PM UTC

blacksmith_tb wrote: post #36

Simulacra wrote: post #5

I don't feel guilt when they swivel that ipad around, more like annoyance. When I'm asked to tip for someone handing me a cup of coffee, I say no tip. We should really be pushing to get away from this relic of slavery, and don't tip unless it's absolutely clear we need to; i.e. at a sit down restaurant.

Ouch, having worked in cafes and restaurants as an undergrad I pretty much always tip 20%. Is it absurd? Of course, but given how badly most waitstaff are paid, the idea that you will somehow eliminate the practice by stiffing a few barristas seems both sadistic and highly unlikely to change the world. Until robots hand me muffins, I accept it as a tax on eating out.

I didn't even know tipping at cafes was a thing. Don't they earn above minimum wage? I know waitresses get 2$/h, but baristas, they must get above 8$/h.

Do you also tip at McDonalds?