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A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

latimes.com

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Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#91
post #10

>Unfortunately, our website is currently unavailable in most European countries. We are engaged on the issue and committed to looking at options that support our full range of digital offerings to the EU market. We continue to identify technical compliance solutions that will provide all readers with our awa I'm in Mexico :/

Europe by elimination. Not US, not South-East Asia, not Russia. Must be Europe.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#92
post #65
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you mention the Germans: Their process of working through the past ("Vergangenheitsbewältigung") very much includes remembering the victims, massacres and non-heros, as well as embarrassement and remorse, while spending very little energy discussing the actions of positive figures. And even they are seldomly described as "heroes" ("Helden"), probably to avoid any ambiguity regarding the responsibility of the Ge…

I have the utmost regard for Germany. I cant think of another example where the entire country acknowledged their own wrongdoings with sincerity. I have no skin in the game, but in some weird way it makes me feel proud for them

Sadly these days we have a lot of alt-right people arguing that this kind of working through the past has made us weak. In terms of WW2 they argue for recognition of all the German civilian dead in WW2.

The irony of trying to push for sympathy for German refugees in the war and at the same time disregarding the humanity of Syrian refugees is lost on them.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#93
post #16
post #11

It's a bit strange that we are remembering the "hero" but not the 500 or so innocent vietnamese men, women, children and infants who were raped, tortured and/or killed. Strange how we always have to make ourselves the good guys. The "heroes". If you look at the war photos. You'll see infants. Such a horrific war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre It's also strange that we say this is the worst event in vi…

See also: people who claim that the atomic bombings of Japan saved lives, and the people who claim that white people deserve credit for being the people who ended slavery in the United States.

Also, ending slavery but then basically having effectively an analogue of apartheid right after does look like a minimal-motivation approach in retrospect.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#94
post #12

I wouldn't call him forgotten - while I'm bad with remembering names, when I saw "My Lai", the first thing that came to mind was "that badass helicopter pilot who landed his helicopter between civilians and US soldiers, and threatened to open fire to protect the civilians". What I didn't know was that he took so much flak for that - from statements that he should be the one punished to death threats and dead animals…

An extra point: his "helicopter" was about the smallest thing you could get and still call it a helicopter. It provided no cover or protection for the people inside. Had the soldiers engaged, Thompson and the others would have gone down instantly.

Photo: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hiller_UH-12_(H-23)_bw....

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there was justice in the world, Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, and Obama would all be in The Hague, in irons. There is no justice in the world.

Thats far too easy. In a democracy YOU are the state. I wonder what would happen if we could live cast our military deployments so that every voter has access to every war crime committed? Maybe then people wouldn't be so quick to sign up for another war. Or they would at least be honest about it.

Oh, I agree fully that citizens are responsible for the actions of their military, and as well those of their politicians.

The trouble is, the people always get the rulers they deserve.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't really stopped either. Read up on things like the shoddy evidence that goes into drone bombing or the crimes of Seal Team Six or the many other horrific acts the US military has done in recent years and decades. If anything it seems like we are getting better at sweeping this stuff under the rug.

The US military studied Vietnam a lot: No more draft, career soldiers only Control the media One year tour of duty (they broke this one in Iraq because they were running low)

+ use mercenaries

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#98
post #43
post #38

There are a lot of people who use the My Lai massacre as an example of the 'real' America. There are a lot of My Lai's and William Calley's in other countries throughout history. But far fewer Hugh Thompson's and to me that's the 'real' America. In Michigan we've got the recent example of Dr. Hanna Attisha and the Flint water crisis. She was vilified by Flint officials, state officials and by the state's universities…

> There are a lot of My Lai's and William Calley's in other countries throughout history. But far fewer Hugh Thompson's and to me that's the 'real' America. There were a lot of My Lai’s in Vietnam . Biggest misconception is that it was some kind of fluke. But in a “war” where entire civillian populated areas were designated “free fire zones” where you could kill anything that moves, civillian massacres were the norm.…

If this was happening all the time, why was the helicopter pilot shocked? Sounds like the crew was equally shocked.

> Civilian mass murder was an explicit goal

It certainly was - of the North Vietnamese communists.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_at_Hu%E1%BA%BF

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Saigon#Human_rights_af...

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another possibility is that they understand GDPR perfectly, and chose not to take on the immense liability associated with accepting traffic from those that are "protected" by it. It's a perfectly reasonable, logical decision, given that GDPR is a complex piece of legislation with enormous room for different interpretations under the laws of 28 unique countries, the enforcement of which is fraught with conflicts of i…

> the immense liability associated with accepting traffic from those that are "protected" by it. A third of the 100 most viewed US newspapers have shuttered themselves to the EU, however this mass blocking has not seemingly been the norm for newspapers or other businesses in other markets outside the EU, or noticeably stopped any businesses within it from running websites. What makes US news media companies so fragil…

this mass blocking has not seemingly been the norm for newspapers or other businesses in other markets outside the EU, or noticeably stopped any businesses within it from running websites.

Of course people within the EU will continue to run websites under GDPR, they have no choice. Further, the reality is that enforcement will be squarely focused on importing cash from mid-to-large sized foreign companies. The anti-competitive goals of GDPR will not be achieved by fining EU companies to death - they'll be achieved by hobbling foreign competitors.

As for companies in other industries, I suspect that you're noticing a large number of US newspaper sites are blocking because they have a larger contingent of international visitors than most US sites do, and each one of those visitors could subject them to the enormous, arbitrary penalties included in the GDPR. Massive companies like Facebook and Google can afford to comply and deal with the numerous legal uncertainties associated with it (and have to because they receive a large percentage of their traffic from the EU). But for mid-tier media companies, compliance is an enormous expense, yet they are large enough that they would be an enforcement target. So they did the financially responsible thing: block the EU.

Finally, most smaller websites won't bother with blocking or complying, because they believe they will not be enforcement targets. This may or may not be the correct position to take; only time will tell.

Re: A forgotten hero stopped the My Lai massacre 50 years ago

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't really stopped either. Read up on things like the shoddy evidence that goes into drone bombing or the crimes of Seal Team Six or the many other horrific acts the US military has done in recent years and decades. If anything it seems like we are getting better at sweeping this stuff under the rug.

The US military studied Vietnam a lot: No more draft, career soldiers only Control the media One year tour of duty (they broke this one in Iraq because they were running low)

> Control the media

This is a big one I think. From what I've read, in Vietnam, you just needed to get letter from your local newspaper accrediting you as a journalist, and you basically got a free ticket anywhere in Vietnam with the US military.

Now it's a lot harder to get embedded as a journalist with military units.

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