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The European Union versus the Internet

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Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#91

Post by Tharkun »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #86
Tharkun wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the GDPR "success story" part of your comment. So far it's backfired entirely. The goal was to provide users with more control, and (from the standpoint of such a user) to reduce relentless personal data harvesting. That hasn't happened. What's happened is more annoying "we use cookies and track you"-banners all over the internet. As a user who doesn't use cookies, these damned things won't even go aw…

AIUI the "allow being tracked to gain access" is unlawful.

Apparently "allow being tracked to gain more access" somehow isn't. As far as I can tell that's what every major newspaper in Belgium is doing. I suspect they've got folks in their employ who speak legalese.

But then newspapers in Belgium are pretty horrible in general. They're exempt from paying VAT, even for content they sell online. Online-only news sites don't get this exemption and have to charge 21% VAT, so the entrenched newspapers have something of an unfair advantage there. But anyway, that's a different rant entirely. Just an illustration of their general scumminess.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#92

Post by Jnr »

notemaker wrote: post #74
joshuakarjala wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3. No, you cannot serve any EU customers if there is not option to "opt out" of any unnecessary processing

The reality however, after GDPR was implemented, is 95% of the time GTFO or click accept.

Wait till mid 2019 when EU countries will actually start enforcing it. Unofficially there is a change period so probably no one will really be touched by it in the first year.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#94

Post by Dormeno »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #86
Tharkun wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with the GDPR "success story" part of your comment. So far it's backfired entirely. The goal was to provide users with more control, and (from the standpoint of such a user) to reduce relentless personal data harvesting. That hasn't happened. What's happened is more annoying "we use cookies and track you"-banners all over the internet. As a user who doesn't use cookies, these damned things won't even go aw…

AIUI the "allow being tracked to gain access" is unlawful.

This paper says it is lawful.

https://www.iabeurope.eu/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/20171128...

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#95

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Joeri wrote: post #49
ktosobcy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My perception and view of the US and it's culture also slightly shifted after GDPR came into spotlight (same conclusions as yours). Just the other day I ended up in a discussion with a US citizen (it started completely harmless and away from culture/politics) and ended up in the same corner: "EU is bad because it limits your freedom, US is great because it gives you freedom". The problem is - the argument (my underst…

In my view, in Europe there is a bigger pressure to value people/individuals over company/corporate interest and that's seems like the crux of the difference. I think it’s more about two different definitions of freedom. The U.S. defines it as the freedom to choose, where harmful outcomes are an accident of letting people freely choose. The E.U. sees it more as the freedom to live, where choices that harm quality of…

I'm going to guess you're not from Europe based on that definition?

The EU constrains companies to the benefit of individuals. It's not stopping people from hurting themselves, it's stopping them from being hurt by companies who have phenomenal power over us, more power in some ways than states themselves have.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#96

Post by hyperman1 »

Nursie wrote: post #77
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and to deliberately misunderstand that a maximum penalty wasn't going to be the always penalty. This is the only way to view penalties like this that don't have clearly defined criteria. It's all up to a judge, and when so much is at risk, a company will assume the worse.

A very American view! This just sort of proves the point the poster was making. People here don't assume that the worst case is going to happen. Most sorts of these laws so far result in initial action taken to help (or force) the company to comply. Fines are usually only considered for those who repeatedly refuse to come into line. My view of the US is that there are many more aggressive public prosecutors who will…

I agree, a very American view.

Nobody but the national regulatory instance of each country can sue, and they are in general not very happy on legal procedures.

In practice, a common Euro-pattern is this: First, a sternly worded private letter is sent to the target company. If that doesn't help, a public statement is made. After that, basic legal procedures for a small amount. The amount gets larger when the abuse is more flagrant and previous messages did not help. When the target company seems to co-operate reasonably well, no legal procedures are even started.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#97

Post by MiddleEndian »

Tharkun wrote: post #78
mrmekon wrote: post #18

In my network of friends, which is within the EU and comprised entirely of EU citizens and spans multiple EU tech companies from dinky startups to Giant Unicorn, GDPR has been almost universally approved. We had to implement it, and generally feel better for having done so. The Giant Unicorn employees were dismayed by how little time they were given for such a giant task, but were in support of the law. Everybody is…

I disagree with the GDPR "success story" part of your comment. So far it's backfired entirely. The goal was to provide users with more control, and (from the standpoint of such a user) to reduce relentless personal data harvesting. That hasn't happened. What's happened is more annoying "we use cookies and track you"-banners all over the internet. As a user who doesn't use cookies, these damned things won't even go aw…

You may be interested in http://prebake.eu/ to block them.

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#98

Post by Tomte »

r_smart wrote: post #90
Tomte wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one of thousands of laws, but sure, this one is the definitive indicator of the EU's values. Maybe we could try to find a single US law that we don't like and dismiss America just as readily?

We all know you're going to pick the Patriot Act :)

Or maybe The Hague Invasion Act? ;-)

Re: The European Union versus the Internet

#100

Post by tomp »

Tharkun wrote: post #78
mrmekon wrote: post #18

In my network of friends, which is within the EU and comprised entirely of EU citizens and spans multiple EU tech companies from dinky startups to Giant Unicorn, GDPR has been almost universally approved. We had to implement it, and generally feel better for having done so. The Giant Unicorn employees were dismayed by how little time they were given for such a giant task, but were in support of the law. Everybody is…

I disagree with the GDPR "success story" part of your comment. So far it's backfired entirely. The goal was to provide users with more control, and (from the standpoint of such a user) to reduce relentless personal data harvesting. That hasn't happened. What's happened is more annoying "we use cookies and track you"-banners all over the internet. As a user who doesn't use cookies, these damned things won't even go aw…

Yea, I agree.

AFAIK GDPR does explicitly legislate against all that - dialogues should be "opt-in" and should include a simple "no" option, and that sites shouldn't "ban" you for not clicking "yes".

But unless EU actually starts delivering some hefty fines, the law is just a dead tree.

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