What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood • Hacker News Board

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#91

Post by the_mitsuhiko » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 7:25 PM UTC

burlesona wrote: post #25

How have we gotten this far into the comments without anyone mentioning the root cause here is a general shortage of housing in places people want to live / work / visit? It seems to me that AirBNB isn't to blame for the overall lack of housing (and temporary housing aka hostel/hotel) options, rather it's just the most visible brand name competing for the limited supply. Cities can ban it if they want, but I'd rather…

> How have we gotten this far into the comments without anyone mentioning the root cause here is a general shortage of housing in places people want to live / work / visit?

There is plenty of housing in many cities where Airbnb is detrimental to the quality of life. We have an Airbnb flat in our building and we had one in the last one I was in. In both cases we had breakins, damage done to the house, garbage left etc.

We're in a residential, non-touristy area. Both those airbnb flats in question were not welcome by renders or owners in the house.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#92

Post by jonny_eh » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 7:25 PM UTC

eerwrq wrote: post #63

jonny_eh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One is mostly helpful (building housing) and one is mostly detrimental (banning airbnb).

How is banning AirBnB detrimental to the housing problem if it's also contributing to the lack of housing supply?

Banning Airbnb can be detrimental to the local economy, as well as the freedom for residents to do what they want with their property.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#93

Post by babesh » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 7:27 PM UTC

burlesona wrote: post #25

How have we gotten this far into the comments without anyone mentioning the root cause here is a general shortage of housing in places people want to live / work / visit? It seems to me that AirBNB isn't to blame for the overall lack of housing (and temporary housing aka hostel/hotel) options, rather it's just the most visible brand name competing for the limited supply. Cities can ban it if they want, but I'd rather…

The problem is a tragedy of the commons. If you build a giant box in the Las Ramblas, you reap the benefits but worsen the neighborhood for others. If everyone does that, you have destroyed Las Ramblas.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#94

Post by ck425 » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 7:33 PM UTC

pc86 wrote: post #89

ck425 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that additional housing can also destroy the character of existing areas. That doesn't mean we don't build, just that it has to be considered, which is harder to do when demand is increasing too quickly.

Complaining about both the rapidly increasing housing prices as well as the loss of character in developed areas doesn't have any cognitive dissonance at all, though.

It's a balance, one that AirBnB is making far more difficult to maintain.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#95

Post by istorical » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 7:37 PM UTC

ritchiea wrote: post #58

burlesona wrote: post #25

How have we gotten this far into the comments without anyone mentioning the root cause here is a general shortage of housing in places people want to live / work / visit? It seems to me that AirBNB isn't to blame for the overall lack of housing (and temporary housing aka hostel/hotel) options, rather it's just the most visible brand name competing for the limited supply. Cities can ban it if they want, but I'd rather…

It's not just a lack of housing. Airbnb is changing neighborhoods by creating increased demand for vacation friendly activities and turning some areas into an effective full time weekend. It's taking popular neighborhoods like the Mission in SF or Williamsburg in Brooklyn or the Gothic quarter in Barcelona and turning them into 365 day a year tourist parties. Any neighborhood with a reputation for being hip, having a…

And for many of us - we like having exciting nightlife options in Williamsburg or the Mission during the week. The solution isn't to stop neighborhoods from becoming lively and fun, it's to once again build more housing so that those who don't want to live in lively neighborhoods can move to another neighborhood.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#96

Post by bashmydotfiles » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 7:48 PM UTC

burlesona wrote: post #25

How have we gotten this far into the comments without anyone mentioning the root cause here is a general shortage of housing in places people want to live / work / visit? It seems to me that AirBNB isn't to blame for the overall lack of housing (and temporary housing aka hostel/hotel) options, rather it's just the most visible brand name competing for the limited supply. Cities can ban it if they want, but I'd rather…

That's right AirBNB isn't to blame for the overall lack of housing - but it is to blame for pushing people out of housing. Landlords can make much more money if they kick out all of their tenants and rent to people on AirBNB - effectively turning the property they own into a hotel.

The long term solution for this is to have more housing, but that isn't going to fix the problem that many face currently. I think the best course of action to take right now is to put laws in place that restrict AirBNB in some ways.

For example, this recently happened in Boston: https://boston.curbed.com/2018/6/13/17460760/boston-airbnb-r...

These new regulations makes it so that AirBNB "Hotels" would be impossible. Of course it /does/ screw over an individual that would possibly want to rent their apartment out while they're away, but I think the pros outweigh the cons. Namely, if you're able to afford a single person apartment in Boston - you're probably more well off than other people in Boston, so you probably don't need the extra income provided by AirBNB anyway.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#97

Post by mullingitover » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 7:50 PM UTC

danharaj wrote: post #6

To put it bluntly, I don't like competing with the entire rest of the world for housing in my city, and I'm pretty sure most other people don't either.

If you're taking ownership of the city, you also kinda have to take responsibility for the city's mismanagement of housing supply.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#98

Post by malvosenior » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 8:48 PM UTC

mazatta wrote: post #4

Airbnb is a zero sum game - what tourists win, locals lose. Two of my coworkers are currently being forced to look for a new place to live in a tight housing market because their current landlord can make more money renting on Airbnb. I've stayed in Airbnbs in the past (and appreciated the convenience), but I no longer will.

Local homeowners win. Property values rise and you have the option of monetizing your house.

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#99

Post by lifeisstillgood » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 10:07 PM UTC

eerwrq wrote: post #32

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the heart of the matter. it is also the heart of globalisation and the very heart of the internet - we should be very aware of the massive social dislocation caused by the globalisation of the food industry in 1870s following the first wave of refrigeration (ice in atlantic ships)

Globalization has nothing to do with this. The problem is that AirBnB reduces an already-tight housing supply by turning homes into hotels. This would be an problem regardless of whether the tourists were international or domestic.

Kinda ... globalisation is just a term for some change in the equilibrium in neighbouring markets that allow participants in one to take part in both. Could be transport costs, could be information changes.

I was thinking tourists == international, but the analysis and the name still is fair i think

Plus to be fair, America is a continent that thinks it's a country so ideas of international tourism are flexible ...

Re: What Airbnb really does to a neighbourhood

#100

Post by wwweston » Thu, Aug 30, 2018, 10:48 PM UTC

ck425 wrote: post #9

glup wrote: post #3

It seems like there is a perfectly reasonable middle ground here — where households have the flexibility to rent out part of their primary residence, on a limited basis (either temporal or just part of the house), subject to clear and evenly enforced regulations. This is a pre-internet idea (e.g., casas particulares in Cuba in the 1990s) that becomes way easier/safer/better with a web-based platform. Personally, I fi…

I suspect that partial apartment rentals are far less disruptive. It's full apartment rents that are causing issues. I think this also comes back to over tourism. Travel is the new materialism. It used to be you kept up with the Jones by buying new cars, new jewellery, new houses. Now it's by going away, frequently and to the most exotic places, to prove how open minded and wordly you are. And it's killing the planet…

"Travel is the new materialism."

I wanna argue with this -- I think some portion of the population has a deep-seated psychological personal need to travel for their own internal well-being rather than to perform travel for an audience as a status symbol. But I think there's a pretty strong case that especially with the rise of social media, travel's become much more tightly linked with attention and status.