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My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

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Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#91

Post by sokoloff »

TomMckenny wrote: post #64
dman wrote: post #7

Is this fairly common in the valley?

It is not unusual. Just to be clear, typically you will never own a home and you will be lucky to have an apartment to yourself. And you will likely be unemployable after 35 or 40 so you better get that mortgage quick and it better not be 30 years. This site obviously has a survivor bias toward success stories. But of the 7 software people I know who are still in the bay area, only 1 still has work. The others live o…

I hear a lot of age discrimination/unemployable after 40 stories, but haven’t seen it in the wild.

I do see terrible coders who haven’t learned anything in 20 years and they have a tough go, but good coders in their 40s are readily employed from what I see. (Over 45 here.)

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#92

Post by johnpowell »

zahrc wrote: post #52
ajmurmann wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>He states himself that programming was just "means to an end" for him. So why even bother? Because you gotta pay the bills somehow. This is something you only ever hear from people in our profession and I think it sometimes leads to self-exploitation. Nobody would ever say "He states himself that driving the garbage truck was just "means to an end" for him. So why even bother?"

But, hopefully, and rarely nobody has to live in that conditions to drive a garbage truck. There is so many stuff out there he he could've paid the bills with, why did it had to be programming in this kind of experience?

Nothing wrong with driving a garbage truck. It pays well, you know when you will go home, you get to be outside, you get some exercise in. Shit, most of it is automated now. At least where I live they never really have to get out of the truck. There is a arm that grabs the bucket and puts it in the truck.

It is kinda like being a bus driver but dealing with less filth.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#93

Post by danbolt »

mmt wrote: post #25
themoat wrote: post #2

I know the author wised up and moved on, but I would rather work construction for the rest of my life than be a programmer and live like this. I worked for a startup for a couple of years that really got it right. The CTO really wanted a certain lead developer as his first hire (they had previously worked together) and the lead dev said (paraphrased, of course) "Nope. Not interested in working more than 40 hours per…

I got two takeaways: The early hires (especially engineer #1) can have a huge influence on the culture. I think that's important to note both for founders and for prospective early employees. > devs have only worked longer than a 40 hour week maybe 5 times total. > That dev team has consistently deployed great feature after another at an incredible rate. This second takeaway, that being disciplined about working hour…

I think the restriction on working hours ensures that management is more conscious about spent labour too. We have this (often true) stereotype of bad leads wanting employees to overwork and I would bet that’s because they assume that the team can “passionately” do more.

When I’ve seen good projects complete on time, I remember seeing my producer comb the milestone tasks asking herself “can this deliver value and be feasible”, rather than making a marathon for other people to run.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#94

Post by garganzol »

jiveturkey wrote: post #50

are you kidding me? it’s written as if it took place over years and decades. “the longer i stayed in the hostel, the more my life slipped away”. it was weeks. i wouldn’t be surprised if the guy living in the closet was the owner of the unit. (or lessee) the author thinks he’s going to graduate from boot camp and “make it”? please. this article and the fact of its (self) publication tells us a lot about the author, an…

Yep, spotted the same thing. Just a few weeks, not years. Meh. A few weeks is nothing. You need years and decades to master something.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#97

Post by danbolt »

a_imho wrote: post #73
themoat wrote: post #2

I know the author wised up and moved on, but I would rather work construction for the rest of my life than be a programmer and live like this. I worked for a startup for a couple of years that really got it right. The CTO really wanted a certain lead developer as his first hire (they had previously worked together) and the lead dev said (paraphrased, of course) "Nope. Not interested in working more than 40 hours per…

What is so hard about saying no to overtime? Just turn off the computer and go home.

I’m a junior-ish programmer at a software company. I usually stick to a 40-hour week, but I know other juniors (plus seniors!) that voluntarily do 60 and I know that they’ll likely end up advancing faster than me. The leads usually come to them first and give them the most interesting work.

I’m okay with it, as what’s important to me isn’t 100% related to the work I do and this job is a great resume bullet, but I know that the market for employee merit doesn’t stop at 5pm.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#98

Post by jypepin »

physcab wrote: post #22

This really is only one small segment of the programming population. I really hate superficial shit like this that paints tech workers in a bad light bc most have ordinary jobs and live ordinary lives and aren’t social recluses. I work typical 9-5, wife and kids. We go grocery shopping and make dinner every night together. We live very modestly and we have lots of non-tech friends and family. It’s literaly nothing sp…

This requires more upvotes. I can't believe so many people in this thread are agreeing with the view that is painted in this article as the majority.

I went to SF without money for a bootcamp, I did not experience this. The author seems to just have done it without preparing or thinking much.

First, if you are joining a bootcamp, there are other people in your cohort with whom you can find support, roommates, etc (that's what I did).

2nd, even if you end up in such a bad situation, you KNOW it's for only 12 weeks. And very intense 12 weeks anyway, so really, all you need your room for is sleeping.

3rd, you socialise with other students and teachers in that bootcamp. Can't you see that most of them are NOT like the nerdy roommates he describes?

4th I have a few friends who work at Pinterest... yes _that_ Pinterest. They can afford their own place in SF, thank you.

5th, the OP wanted to do a 12weeks bootcamp to then work remotely and be a ski bum? That's nice, but he obviously didn't really research what a bootcamp really offers. I've done a bootcamp - I'm now working for myself, but that's 5 years later. I would have NOT been able to work remotely my first year, I needed way too much mentoring and help to continue learning. Bootcamps don't promise to make your a senior engineer in 12 weeks, they promise to teach you how to learn, so can get a cheap entry level job and _continue_ learning on the job, with _mentoring_.

Sorry this sounds like a rant, but I've seen too many people giving a bad image of what bootcamps have to offer. I've had a great experience doing mine and this is true for most people I know who did one too. It just has to be taken how it is.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#99

Post by jypepin »

sleepychu wrote: post #81
mothsonasloth wrote: post #78

I will be trying remote working soon, this whole culture of co-location is the reason you have SF, London, NY etc. I moved away from London because its economically and socially tough. With a remote job I will be able to make a London salary but live wherever I like, enjoy the outdoors and live life how I see fit. SF, Madrid, Berlin, NY are sparkly places where a lot of people (bar the lucky few) end up trapped.

Have you lined this up already? Do you have examples of places paying London salaries to remote employees?

a lot of companies pay salaries agnostic to where you are. Or do very little adjustment. You can look at buffer's new pay system (it's all open). A lot of other remote company do the same or something pretty similar.

Re: My life with 12 programmers, 2 rooms and one 21st-century dream (2016)

#100

Post by jaclaz »

dhnsmakala wrote: post #33

I call bushit on this story. This article is greatly exaggerated to grab your attention. $1.4k for a closet in an Airbnb with 13 people, where you don't get a key and have to sneak in? Heh. I have found a large room in a newer complex through a company pairing roommates in just a few days. It was $1800. Heck, you could pay $1k for a room in Berkely or Oakland and commute in by Bart.

I too call it bullshit.

12 or 13 "hackers" and noone thought to make a copy of the door key?

Come on ...

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