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Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

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Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#91

Post by laurieg »

Regardsyjc wrote: post #84
dbjh wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't swapping anything. I was arguing against the claim that Koreans are being oppressed. They're not. In an attempt by the Japanese government to make amends they have been given privileges that other foreigners don't enjoy. Some Japanese see that as unfair, because why would they enjoy special privileges if they have not been subject to unfair treatment as their ancestors were? That's where the irritation comes…

“After a decade-long battle, the Supreme Court ruled recently that Chung, the daughter of a Japanese woman and a South Korean man, who was born in Japan and has lived all her life here, could not take the test to become a supervisor at a public health center because she was a foreigner." Japan-born Koreans live in limbo https://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/02/news/japanborn-koreans-li...

Another way to frame this would be she has chosen to "live in limbo". She could naturalise and it would not have been a problem.

Japan makes the zainichi concession because it's got no other option. Force the people affected to become Japanese would cause an outcry. Repatriating them to a country they have never lived in would be little better.

The zainichi status holders that I have met over the years in general identify more strongly with their non Japanese nationality and do not want to naturalise. If that means they cannot become a police officer or a government official it seems fairly reasonable to me.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#92

Post by CaptainZapp »

glandium wrote: post #70
anjc wrote: post #66

Any non-Japanese person who wants to work there should think long and hard, and give it a trial first. Poor pay, strong work culture, stifling weather and crazy weather events for much of the year...it's no paradise. You'll frequently see things happen which are downright illegal in the Western world. For example, being explicitly denied service because you're not Japanese. You might not see these things as a tourist…

> For example, being explicitly denied service because you're not Japanese. You might not see these things as a tourist but live there and you'll see it. There are very few such places. I haven't seen any myself, and I don't know first-hand anyone who has seen any themselves either. The rare cases I heard about were all a shortcut made to essentially mean "can't serve people that don't speak Japanese". As in, they di…

It happened to me twice (as a tourist, overall being seven weeks in Japan).

My strong feeling was that the proprietor of those places were afraid that they won't be able to communicate appropriately and that they may lose face if they can't make me happy. I never felt discrimanted against, really.

On the other hand I had fantastic experiences walking into places, where nobody spoke an English word, throwing a hearty Omakase! (essentially: you decide) at the chef. Smiling and an occasional Oishii! (delicious) delivered with a smile also go a long way.

You have to be aware that they're really scared to lose face and that you could leave unhappy. A very big no!no! in Japanese culture.

I had fantastic experiences, let alone extremely tasty meals with this approach.

edit : spello

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#94

Post by sofon »

Regardsyjc wrote: post #83
sofon wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, survey data. And to be clear, the world value survey has asked questions covering racism. In particular: "Would you accept someone of a different race as a neighbour?" and "How often do you see racist behaviour in your neighbourhood?" You could also look at mobility of foreign workers of as opposed to native workers of a similar background. Unfortunately the world value survey results don't really support your c…

I think xenophobia is a great marker for racism. Here's a wiki article for racism and xenophobia in South Korea: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_South_Korea

Interesting, by the World Value Survey figures South Korea looks worse than Japan overall. 34.1% of people mentioned that they would not want a person of a different race as a neighbour, as opposed to 22.3% in Japan.

I was still shocked by how high the numbers are for Japan. It's mostly dominated by people over 50 (27.8%) those under 29 only replied positively 10.5% of the time.

The numbers for the US are fascinating too. Overall only 5.6% of people said they wouldn't want a person of a different race as a neighbour. But the trend is the opposite to Japan, 6% of people under 29 said they would not want a person of a different race as a neighbour (4.7% of people over 50).

That young people on average are less likely to want a person of a different race as a neighbour in the US is surprising to me.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#95

Post by laum »

xaranke wrote: post #22
ericdykstra wrote: post #8

I love living and working in Japan, but I wouldn't recommend moving here unless you're committed to becoming fluent in Japanese and integrating into the culture. This is probably mostly true for any country one could move, but Japanese is one, if not the hardest language to learn for native English speakers. I do, however, recommend everyone visit! Japan is a beautiful country with a unique culture and has something…

Can you comment on whether racism is still a thing in Japanese society?

It’s still there at an institutional and cultural level - I think the most glaring example of this is the amount of landlords who either openly or discreetly (with a phone call to your realtor) will not rent property to foreigners.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#96

Post by ousta »

xaranke wrote: post #22
ericdykstra wrote: post #8

I love living and working in Japan, but I wouldn't recommend moving here unless you're committed to becoming fluent in Japanese and integrating into the culture. This is probably mostly true for any country one could move, but Japanese is one, if not the hardest language to learn for native English speakers. I do, however, recommend everyone visit! Japan is a beautiful country with a unique culture and has something…

Can you comment on whether racism is still a thing in Japanese society?

There isnt a mono-ethnic country in the world where you won't face racism much worse than in multicultural societies as you will always be different. People don't call it racism there. its normal for you not to be treated like a japanese as you re not one. and don't worry they will make you feel that everyday. especially when they will see that you speak japanese and that you re not a tourist

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#97

Post by ousta »

Regardsyjc wrote: post #80
xaranke wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you comment on whether racism is still a thing in Japanese society?

I'm not Japanese but if Japanese culture is like Korean culture, there is subtle racism for foreigners but far from a crazy American level. More racism with darker shades of skin color. If this is an example of collective Asian cultures and racism- I'm Korean-American but I'm not considered Korean in Korean culture. If anyone watched Crazy Rich Asians, it's exactly like that. You might have a Chinese face and speak C…

well if you don't know anything abut china but its language (which is already a start) then yeah you 're not chinese to someone who lived all his life in china. you are an american.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#98

Post by technofiend »

carlmr wrote: post #36
cgarrigue wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily the work culture is slowly changing, at least regarding the matter of OT: following the suicide of a new recruit of Dentsu that was ruled to be a death by overwork, several companies started to ask their employees to refrain from doing OT. However, as an engineer, it is sometimes quite frustrating to work with colleagues who do not want to try anything by themselves, because they want to be taught everything.…

>However, as an engineer, it is sometimes quite frustrating to work with colleagues who do not want to try anything by themselves, because they want to be taught everything. This seems to come from the way they learn things at school: the teacher is always right, because he's the teacher; you need to listen to your seniors, because they know more than you. This leads to new recruits being taught everything by senior…

Sounds like the perfect opportunity for a consultant! You're presumably an expert and have technical authority that is not anchored to the company hierarchy.

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#99

Post by gkanai »

waterhouse wrote: post #81
cgarrigue wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily the work culture is slowly changing, at least regarding the matter of OT: following the suicide of a new recruit of Dentsu that was ruled to be a death by overwork, several companies started to ask their employees to refrain from doing OT. However, as an engineer, it is sometimes quite frustrating to work with colleagues who do not want to try anything by themselves, because they want to be taught everything.…

> this limits innovation, because nobody wants to do something new. Curious. The stuff that I've read about Toyota says they have "continuous improvement" as a core principle[1]. Does that just not carry over into the way they do software, or is Toyota an anomaly among Japanese companies, or what? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota#Company_strategy

In short, Toyota does not see themselves as a software firm (and they aren't in a broad sense); Sony also failed to transition beyond their best years of the 90s largely because they did not understand the importance of software and the Internet on consumer electronics as Apple did. I say this having worked at Toyota building some of the very first websites and web services for Toyota globally as well as working at Sony as well (I built the Internet services for the Network Handycam as well as other things.)

Re: Some Techies Are Shunning Silicon Valley for the Japanese Dream

#100

Post by gkanai »

carlmr wrote: post #49
larrysalibra wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure this is just a Japan phenomenon - seems like more of a "American tech workers are realizing there's a lot of interesting places to live outside of the USA and it's easier than ever"-phenomenon. I made the move to China and then Hong Kong about 11 years ago and don't regret it either. Anecdotally seeing increasing numbers of "high tech" people moving to Hong Kong / China too. 10 years ago it was mostly people…

Do you have any tips on how to get into China?

Getting into China today is very different than it was a few years ago. Many of China's best engineers are eager to be in China for the rise of the Chinese domestic tech firms (BAT & TMD) and even those Chinese who go overseas for higher ed or advanced degrees, 70-80% of those go back to China not only because getting work visas in the US is more difficult but also because the opportunities are more and better in China than in the US.

So as an engineer- you really have to have some specific skillset to be able to shine in China. There are foreign engineers in China but it's not as easy as it was years ago.

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