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Aerial photos reveal the stark divide between rich and poor

bbc.co.uk

91–98 of 98 posts

Re: Aerial photos reveal the stark divide between rich and poor

#91
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The message the photographer is trying to convey is that our world economy relies on startling wealth inequality to keep functioning. There is no escape, and no solution without the wealthiest folks massively sacrificing. In order to live in a nice suburban home, drive a nice car, eat well, and have TVs and computers, slavery must exist. Important and useful minerals must be robbed from places like the Congo. Places…

But as I said else where the average wealth of a lot of developing countries has gone up a lot - take China 30/40 years ago to today and the Rise of the middle class in India.

Just because average wealth has increased, doesn't mean life is better. Who is more poor: a farmer who lives in the middle of no where in a hut, but has fresh water, fruit trees, and a couple goats, or a person who works at McDonalds in the USA?

Those statistics would say the person in the hut is poorer of course, but I would disagree.

Re: Aerial photos reveal the stark divide between rich and poor

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No we didn’t. There isn’t a fixed amount of wealth that we just need to divvy up fairly. Wealth can be created and destroyed. It’s not a zero sum game.

How about all three? Wealth can be created, destroyed, and distributed. Wealth is redistributed all the time. Sometimes it’s called taxes, dividends, wages, etc. When it goes from the poor to the rich, we call it the free market. There are even make-believe concepts like “Trickle Down Economics” that describe wealth going from the rich to the poor.

Counterintuitively, the sole root of all zero-sum economics is self-fulfilling prophecy of it: https://youtube.com/watch?v=iV18Xx5EkaE&t=5m19s

Re: Aerial photos reveal the stark divide between rich and poor

#93

I'm always confused by these kind of pictures. The 'developed' spaces have apartment towers and dense construction - many more people appear to live there per acre. If land is at such a premium (and the towers seem to indicate this) then how on earth does the shack-dweller afford so much land (relatively) for their very-much-lower density housing? Sure maybe 20 people live in a shack, I understand that, but in the sa…

You're not wrong in that the land value often isn't in line with the shacks.

But a few things to consider:

One is that shacks tend not to be built by the owners on their own land. i.e., they're not paying for the land, therefore the value of the land plays does not prohibit them from building a shack there. Instead, they're occupying the space illegally. A shack only costs a little in bricks (these lowgrade ones are probably about 10 cents a piece) and some metal roofing.

Second is that shacks in some countries are built in high-demand locations as a political and economic instrument by poor people. In Morocco for example, those who live in slums often get bought about for about 25k per family by a public-private investment project aimed at building luxury apartments. They then take this money to build/buy-into a low-quality apartment building in the city's poor periphery. They're often staying illegally and refusing low-ball offers. If you kick them out by force, you have a moral and socio-political problems and the problem only relocates (waterbed effect). Further, local politicians will often cater to these people for their votes, when the majority of the country is below middle-class, that's who you pander to. In essence, these slums and the related buyout acts like a sort of earmarked social-housing tax on luxury housing projects.

Sometimes the slums are actually owned by those who live there (unlikely, usually it's based on forged documents). But even then, no developer will buy a small plot in the middle of a slum for luxury apartments. You need to be able to buy-out families consisting of hundreds of people before you have a large enough plot of land to develop in. That isn't easy and people know they can fetch a high-price. They also know they have to, finding another place to live isn't cheap.

And lastly, there actually are tons of shacks being sold every day, replaced by apartments due to the value dynamics you described. It just doesn't happen overnight to the entire stock.

Re: Aerial photos reveal the stark divide between rich and poor

#94
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Until we reach that pinnacle of human existence, we should all work towards preventing the majority of the world's population living in poverty. Are talking about absolute or relative poverty? I absolutely agree that no human should go without food, clean water, shelter, and sanitation. But I absolutely disagree that a 50" flatscreen TV should be considered a human right just because Bill Gates has a 200" flatscree…

Well one good point would be with your death. Inheriting large fortunes has obviously nothing to do with resourcefulness and inventiveness.

My wealth is mine to do what I want with, including to give it to someone else (unless you're proposing that wealth be somehow nontransferable?)

Inheritance isn't about the receiver getting something for nothing, it's about the right of the deceased to have their possessions disposed of as they see fit.

Re: Aerial photos reveal the stark divide between rich and poor

#95
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, as we gradually grow further toward work being almost entirely automated, capitalism as we know it will wither and die. There is no market if machines do all the work. It may take centuries but in the end, the only equitable answer is full communism, managed by a benevolent artificial intelligence.

Yes perhaps but just like letting toddlers drive your car, trying something that could be good in the future might have terrible consequences now .

Might do, might not. Either way, we need to plan for it.

Re: Aerial photos reveal the stark divide between rich and poor

#96
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The function of the unit is to meet your needs. This function is identical for all units. The collective of units provides an equitable living solution for all humans.

I think what you’re describing is called “post-scarcity utopia”. It’s hardly an interesting point of view to say that this would be desirable. Pursuit of it, however, has killed more people than war in the 20th century.

> Pursuit of it, however, has killed more people than war in the 20th century.

How so?

Re: Aerial photos reveal the stark divide between rich and poor

#97
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not claim that the needs of everyone are identical, only that they should be met without favouring one individual over another.

So along the lines of from each according to his ability to each according to his need then?

Pretty much, yes.

Re: Aerial photos reveal the stark divide between rich and poor

#98
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well one good point would be with your death. Inheriting large fortunes has obviously nothing to do with resourcefulness and inventiveness.

My wealth is mine to do what I want with, including to give it to someone else (unless you're proposing that wealth be somehow nontransferable?) Inheritance isn't about the receiver getting something for nothing, it's about the right of the deceased to have their possessions disposed of as they see fit.

Why would it only be about one side? Why is it NOT about the reveiver getting something for free? Why do I have to pay income tax on money I earned by working all year?

I agree it is morally more complicated on the giver side, but on the taker side it is fairly clear cut.

On the other hand the giver is dead and why should he have any more rights?

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