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Six Months at Riot Games

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Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#91

Post by trowawee »

ecshafer wrote: post #79
lsmarigo wrote: post #40

Interesting that this one is doing well compared to the longer in-depth kotaku article a few days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17710188 - fwiw that piece has since been corroborated by a ton of former riot employees on twitter. At the risk of sounding overly cynical, this is all true and everyone knows about it, people feign disgust at these articles but we're all complicit and understanding that this is…

This isn't the way things are though, at least no where I've worked. I work in the finance industry as a software developer and if any of that stuff happened, there would be a huge outcry and some serious reprimands and firings. In most of America things are nothing like that. These are immature people that got lucky and rich and still act like frat boys.

Virtually every woman I know has stories like the ones in both this blog post and the original big Kotaku piece. The sheer pervasive depth of Riot's misogynistic culture is less common, but it's a difference in degree, not in kind.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#92

Post by mozumder »

amarant wrote: post #42
masklinn wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Shared behaviour — even juvenile — creates strong in-group bounds. And some competition within a cooperative environment is common. Especially if most of the group does relatively menial work. Furthermore juvenile behaviour is commonly encouraged by both gaming and SV companies/corps: aside from being convenient to pull in just out of college without necessitating their adaptation to adulthood, it also serves as…

I mean, you would appear to be right. I wont argue the contrary. still, I had not expected it.

So, in tech, do people not go to strip clubs anymore?

Like, what's the culture now? Are all interpersonal relationships now formalized into an algorithm?

Do people not get into actual fistfights at the office anymore?

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#93

Post by unstableph »

almostCEO wrote: post #48

A woman writes a post saying she’s offended by typical male jokes. The majority of employees are male, but they have to instead adapt to the vocal minority that can’t take a dick joke. I understand there are idiots but stories like this encourages me to never hire women, because they’re obviously over-sensitive and will at some point write a “I have been offended and this company is sexist” post and nobody will quest…

>stories like this encourages me to never hire women

When you hire, you have to consider if the person is a good cultural fit. Sex of the applicant falls into that category; if productivity is fine in your male-dominated workplace, don't put that in jeopardy by hiring a female.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#94

Post by jstummbillig »

lsmarigo wrote: post #40

Interesting that this one is doing well compared to the longer in-depth kotaku article a few days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17710188 - fwiw that piece has since been corroborated by a ton of former riot employees on twitter. At the risk of sounding overly cynical, this is all true and everyone knows about it, people feign disgust at these articles but we're all complicit and understanding that this is…

Absolutely fucking not. If stuff like this happened at any place I ever worked at heads would roll, and fast.

These things are highly cultural: If you land at a place (like, apparently, Riot) and you are outnumbered by a few hundred people who are more or less accustomed to this behavior, the insanity is like a tidal wave and will realistically be impossible to stem and I wouldn't assume anyone to have the strength to do it (although I very much applaud anyone who does!)

The beautiful part is, that you don't. This is not normal. You do not have to endure this or be complicit. Do not work with or for assholes.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#95

Post by oddthink »

eksemplar wrote: post #52
lsmarigo wrote: post #40

Interesting that this one is doing well compared to the longer in-depth kotaku article a few days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17710188 - fwiw that piece has since been corroborated by a ton of former riot employees on twitter. At the risk of sounding overly cynical, this is all true and everyone knows about it, people feign disgust at these articles but we're all complicit and understanding that this is…

This is not the way things are though. I’m a manager, and I wouldn’t tolerate any of the painted stories for a second. In fact, none of the people in my network, which includes numerous large Scandinavian tech companies would tolerate anything of the sort. You do see that stuff, of course, but you see it mainly in children aged 10-15, and otherwise only in private, because anyone who keeps it up after that will be un…

I think there are self-reinforcing pockets out there. I'm a manager also, and I know if I heard any of this I'd stamp it down immediately. Heck, if I didn't, I wouldn't be doing my job, and I'd (hopefully) eventually be called on it myself.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#96

Post by lubonay »

shawn wrote: post #75
ipioxu15 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CEO speaks for the company, like it or not.

Really? The CEO does not speak for me, especially when it comes to that.

Then again, you are not the company. If anybody speaks for the company as a whole, it's the CEO.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#97

Post by ethbro »

amarant wrote: post #50
pjc50 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're only directing their hostility at the ""other"". All this shittiness doesn't affect their straight white male devs (the majority), so they can function just fine. Game devs tend to be gamers who've reached adulthood but would like to stay within the gaming culture. That means they're either acclimatized to or actively enjoy the shittiness. All this stuff used to be "standard business culture" in the West, and…

>They're only directing their hostility at the ""other"". All this shittiness doesn't affect their straight white male devs (the majority), so they can function just fine. I don't think that's entirely true. even if they use sexual and racial slurs, it's apparent from the article that they are used as insults directed at each other. I'm a white hetero male developer (not game-dev though) myself, and I'm not sure I'd…

Yelling obscenities against minorities, directed at those of your own group seems like it would strongly reinforce an "Us" / "Them" differentiation.

What's more bonding than shared mockery of the other?

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#98

Post by mscasts »

This is kind of typical. So she joins a company that with male gamedevs and gamers, almost instantly complains about their language and how they design stuff then actions and language that is hard to believe gets spoken or done and she finally leaves and all that happens within six months.

Take this for example:

> "Rape became a punchline to jokes quite frequently, including one instance where an employee went on for several hours about how he was going to rape his male colleague, who was his hotel roommate. He was graphic in exactly how he was going to rape his roommate, who was a new hire, and it was obvious that the individual in question was extremely uncomfortable."

That sounds completely bonkers and while I have worked in some bro-like companies even that is a bit hard to believe. It went on for several hours and no one said anything, really several hours?

Sorry, I kind of want to believe her story but there is all too often females just trying to ruin male culture because some females just seem to get offended by everything and this scenario seems much more plausible to me. What is more likely, that everything she wrote happened just as described or that she exaggerates most of it because she got offended by some stuff along the way?

I would say the second one unless proven otherwise. She makes a lot of grand accusations and for that I demand proof in order to believe it.

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#99

Post by Djvacto »

almostCEO wrote: post #80
anentropic wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> stories like this encourages me to never hire women maybe you're just an asshole

Thank you for your respectful response. I’d like to say that, if you were in charge of hiring people, you’d try to calculate the risks when hiring someone. Hiring a women is unfortunately way too risky. You can find dozens of these posts with no proof whatsoever, but people will believe them and support the writer no matter what (some people even go and insult like you, because they can’t handle people having differe…

Please pm me what company you are almost CEO of. I want to be adequately prepared to avoid this place like the plague.

Also, I'd like to point out, you said:

>(some people even go and insult like you, because they can’t handle people having different opinions).

>stories like this encourages me to never hire women, because they’re obviously over-sensitive and will at some point write a “I have been offended and this company is sexist” post

You wrote both of these, unironically, right next to each other. Can you tell me how not hiring women isn't a case of you not being able to handle people having different opinions?

Re: Six Months at Riot Games

#100

Post by ggregoire »

lsmarigo wrote: post #40

Interesting that this one is doing well compared to the longer in-depth kotaku article a few days ago https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17710188 - fwiw that piece has since been corroborated by a ton of former riot employees on twitter. At the risk of sounding overly cynical, this is all true and everyone knows about it, people feign disgust at these articles but we're all complicit and understanding that this is…

https://twitter.com/sama/status/1027272580925935616
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