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Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

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Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#91
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mormons are the kindest and hardest working people in the country. They understand taking care of each other in ways no one else seems to, and I think that is most of the reason why Utah is so functional. Christians that actually act what they speak in nearly every way. An aside, smog is really bad in Salt Lake due to its geography and that is probably one of the reasons they are taking this so seriously.

I’m happy to see so many positive comments about Mormons here. I usually don’t mention that I’m Mormon in online forums since I see mostly negativity about the church. (It’s just me being self-conscious) We’re certainly not perfect but we do try to look out our neighbors, I’m glad that’s recognized on the outside as well.

We certainly have our strengths, but also our own unique mix of sins.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#92
post #11

I don't understand why road taxes aren't used to pay for free public transport. The more people on public transport the more room for cars.

Free public transport is a can of worms; in general, free tends to attract walkers and bikers but not drivers, since price is not really how a car competes with public transport. And attracting walkers and bikers would probably be a negative. There's also a negative cycle where some walkers and bikers will switch because the free service is good enough, so the services become overcrowded, so more service is provided and the increased frequencies make public transit even more attractive to walkers and bikers. So you end up increasing costs quite a bit with no increase in "revenue".

There's also the fact that in even moderately busy systems, the amount of fares collected is not insignificant. As an example, New York's MTA: http://interactive.nydailynews.com/project/mta-funding/

$6B out of $15B is quite a lot of money. Raising taxes to cover $6B in lost revenue would be quite the feat. And why wouldn't that $6B be better put towards housing, or hospitals, or schools, or even better public transport services? It's generally better to make services more useful, than to just make existing subpar service free.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#93
post #34

Just thought to leave an aside for anyone considering working in Utah. I Lived in Orem, Utah for a long-time super interesting state. Everyone is super conservative, no doubt, but they are the nicest people I've ever met. They can be "accidentally" racist and bigoted but I attribute that for their ignorance as opposed to hate. The church itself governs and operates like a socialist country. Every church member in the…

Just a note - and I am sorry to derail this conversation - but in my experience, Non-Japanese residents do not have to be outsiders in Japan.

The people who raise that point the most, in my experience, are English teachers who don't speak Japanese, or have had some kind of privileged background. I wasn't part of either in North America; at this point, I would be hard pressed to point at too many things that are particularly different for me and my Japanese co-workers.

If you do speak Japanese and have the desire to be a part of the community, you can be part of non-political society. I know plenty of non-Japanese who can participate in everything (except for voting, which is admittedly a big thing).

Some people point to police harassment (and I have experienced it), but I have seen Japanese people pulled over to have their bags searched and their cycle registration checked. It's a different norm.

That's not to say it is a great thing to be active in Japanese society. Being part of the PTA is a pain in the rear. There is plenty of meaningless inefficiency in "group activities". Everyone takes the same days off and you need to book together time months in advance. But if you want to be in the in-circle, and want to be part of traditional celebrations, you can. (Especially in Tokyo)

On the other hand, as a non-Christian who worked for a company in Salt Lake City, I doubt I could be a part of society there in the same way that I am here. I really liked my co-workers in Provo, more than even my co-workers at some companies in Japan. They were interesting and fun to be around, even when we had different political beliefs.

However, I doubt I could ever be a close friend to any of them because they had beliefs I didn't share, and couldn't share.

It's not like Japan (or Tokyo at least); if you are decent enough at the language, you can slip into groups and be a normal member of society.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pittsburgh has this, too. A dedicated transitway from downtown to the airport. It was a pretty efficient ride when I used it about ten years ago. But at the same time it seemed kind of wasteful.

A good functioning bus lane will feel very wasteful only if it's working as intended and the buses are free-flowing. The entire point is that the buses flow quickly past traffic; you could open up the lane to HOV or cars, but then traffic times would just degrade. https://la.streetsblog.org/2014/07/08/balancing-cars-cash-an... > In May 2014, Streetsblog L.A. began to receive tips that Silver Line BRT service along th…

[deleted]

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#95
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that it's uncharitable to call Christianity a cult when there are more obviously perverse religious/New Age groups that better align with the definition (at least for the sake of debate). However, I'm sure if you asked an LGBTQ person of their experiences with Christianity, especially with the uniquely conservative U.S. evangelical variety, they would say that some of those qualities clearly fit the…

I'm not aware of shunning people being common in US Christian groups for leaving. I stopped going to a church long ago and still keep in touch with friends who still attend.

There was the practice of excommunication, literally, to put outside the community and communication. Today retained in the form of denying communion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommunication

https://www.etymonline.com/word/excommunication

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/politics/politi...

https://www.catholicvote.org/bishop-deny-communion-to-border...

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#96
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that it's uncharitable to call Christianity a cult when there are more obviously perverse religious/New Age groups that better align with the definition (at least for the sake of debate). However, I'm sure if you asked an LGBTQ person of their experiences with Christianity, especially with the uniquely conservative U.S. evangelical variety, they would say that some of those qualities clearly fit the…

I'm not aware of shunning people being common in US Christian groups for leaving. I stopped going to a church long ago and still keep in touch with friends who still attend.

The shunning thing is more Islam and Judaism nowadays. In the olden days of the Spanish Inquisition apostasy and heresy were rather roubustly dealt with.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pittsburgh has this, too. A dedicated transitway from downtown to the airport. It was a pretty efficient ride when I used it about ten years ago. But at the same time it seemed kind of wasteful.

It may feel wasteful if you're used to seeing packed roads, but if you compare to the common alternative (a train track) it no longer seems so bad.

Look at a line of 60 cars with 1 person each, taking up quarter of a mile. One car every two seconds.

Then look at a bus with 60 people taking up 20 yards. One bus a minute.

Then look at a train 200 yards long with 1000 people every 3 minutes.

Which is more wasteful?

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may feel wasteful if you're used to seeing packed roads, but if you compare to the common alternative (a train track) it no longer seems so bad.

Look at a line of 60 cars with 1 person each, taking up quarter of a mile. One car every two seconds. Then look at a bus with 60 people taking up 20 yards. One bus a minute. Then look at a train 200 yards long with 1000 people every 3 minutes. Which is more wasteful?

> One bus a minute

The dedicated bus lane we're talking about here appears to have one bus every 30 minutes (GP said it was a line out to the airport). So it's natural to look at a dedicated road lane that sees two vehicles an hour and think "what a waste, would it really hurt to let some cars drive here too?".

But nobody looks at a train track the same way since you're used to seeing train tracks without a bunch of traffic on them.

And yet an extra lane is cheaper to build & maintain. So it's understandable to look at the dedicated lane and think that it's inefficient, when in really it isn't.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#99
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good functioning bus lane will feel very wasteful only if it's working as intended and the buses are free-flowing. The entire point is that the buses flow quickly past traffic; you could open up the lane to HOV or cars, but then traffic times would just degrade. https://la.streetsblog.org/2014/07/08/balancing-cars-cash-an... > In May 2014, Streetsblog L.A. began to receive tips that Silver Line BRT service along th…

The tolls should be raised until a lower amount of cars are around

Well many cities have implemented express lanes which raise and lower prices depending on traffic patterns. metro Atlanta has added them with a new reversible express lane; I believe it is elevated its entire length; coming online in a few months.

the problem with any well designed road system is that the people who need it cannot guarantee their needs don't change. this is especially true where both parents work. where a residence might have had a good commute when bought changes in work location can upset the whole process.

Re: Utah expands public transportation with rapid bus transit, free until 2021

#100
post #12

As usual, this looks like a half-baked implementation of BRT. They get many things right, including articulated buses, off-vehicle ticket purchase, and raised platforms. However, like most BRT systems in the US, it fails on the most important metric: dedicated lanes. Only half of the route is in exclusive lanes, which means the half the time buses will be fighting traffic. Instead, we should be aiming to build more B…

Dedicated lanes are a requirement when there's a lot of congestion (and that congestion would block public transport). It's completely unnecessary for most rapid bus lines, especially outside of cities proper.

> Only half of the route is in exclusive lanes, which means the half the time buses will be fighting traffic.

Half dedicated is enormous. How much traffic is there to fight in Utah outside of SLC?

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