Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban • Hacker News Board

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#91

Post by ckdarby » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 3:18 AM UTC

Marsymars wrote: post #53

westoque wrote: post #24

These kinds of problems (swipe fees, etc) is where I believe cryptocurrencies shine. Having a fee payment which is reasonable and fast confirmation times would solve this problem immediately removing the need for third parties.

No need for cryptocurrencies, this has been a solved problem in various countries for literal decades. See Interac in Canada, Dankort (as mentioned by another poster) in Denmark, and presumably others.

I'm a Canadian living in Canada. Nobody likes interac, debit only system and sending money to others has crazy fees for small transactions.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#92

Post by sokoloff » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 3:26 AM UTC

kasey_junk wrote: post #89

cycrutchfield wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people that care get a substantial portion of those fees back (either as cash or rewards). So in reality, those fees are a tax on the poor, the un-creditworthy, and the financially illiterate.

I assume they meant merchant fees.

Probably so. That's where the money for the cash-back comes from, after all...

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#93

Post by throwaway76543 » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 3:27 AM UTC

kasey_junk wrote: post #89

cycrutchfield wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people that care get a substantial portion of those fees back (either as cash or rewards). So in reality, those fees are a tax on the poor, the un-creditworthy, and the financially illiterate.

I assume they meant merchant fees.

Merchants raise prices to compensate. That is why it is "the poor, the un-creditworthy, and the financially illiterate" who ultimately pay.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#94

Post by kccqzy » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 3:27 AM UTC

Relevant: due to Ohio v. American Express, merchants are generally unable to steer customers from using a particular card. For example if a merchant accepts Visa at all, the merchant has to accept all Visa cards, not selectively choose the lower-fee cards; the merchant also cannot tell the customer to use Discover instead to save costs and only use Visa if that's the customer's only card. This anti-steering provision is originally invented by AmEx and now all four major networks have this requirement. And the SCOTUS just ruled that anti-steering provisions do not violate anti-trust regulations. So the only possible recourse is to outright stop accepting a particular payment network.

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/17pdf/16-1454diff_6579...

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#95

Post by viraptor » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 3:27 AM UTC

cycrutchfield wrote: post #85

bostonvaulter2 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish credit card fees would come down, they're ridiculously high and increase the price of doing business, which increases the prices you pay for items.

Most people that care get a substantial portion of those fees back (either as cash or rewards). So in reality, those fees are a tax on the poor, the un-creditworthy, and the financially illiterate.

Do you really? Maybe it's country-specific, but in Australia there are no programs which give you that many benefits. Likely the best are the airline points, and even then they don't cover close to the payment processing fee total.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#96

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 3:28 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #75

chiph wrote: post #25

I like my rewards Visa more than I like Kroger. Good luck with that ban, guys.

Kroger has most likely done the math with their Kroger rewards program (which has historical payment data), and has determined most people won't care and will switch to debit or a non-Visa CC network instead.

Wal-Mart has had success with forcing debit transactions to withhold merchant fees.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#97

Post by sokoloff » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 3:29 AM UTC

jlarocco wrote: post #13

I'm not sure I understand why this is a big deal all of the sudden. Don't retailers already account for these costs when they're choosing prices?

The average profit margin for a mainstream grocer (like Kroger) is 1-2 percent. It's a low-margin, high-volume business.

Said differently, it's exactly the type of business that I'd expect to care deeply about transaction fees.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#98

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 3:33 AM UTC

inferiorhuman wrote: post #40

deelowe wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seriously doubt the retailer pays different fees depending on th card. That sounds bizarre.

The merchant absolutely pays different fees depending on the card. A Visa platinum card will cost more for the merchant than a basic, non-rewards card. Regardless of scale, different types of merchants also pay different fees.

[deleted]

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#99

Post by kasey_junk » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 3:37 AM UTC

throwaway76543 wrote: post #93

kasey_junk wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume they meant merchant fees.

Merchants raise prices to compensate. That is why it is "the poor, the un-creditworthy, and the financially illiterate" who ultimately pay.

Sure but I think the argument is that because those merchant fees are unknowable no one can make intelligent choices around them. The disadvantaged are obviously more impacted but it’s possible that all of us not in credit card employ or shareholder are taxed. A prisoners dilemma sort of thing.

But we are well past my economics understanding.

Re: Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Visa Ban

#100

Post by aptwebapps » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 3:37 AM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #95

cycrutchfield wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people that care get a substantial portion of those fees back (either as cash or rewards). So in reality, those fees are a tax on the poor, the un-creditworthy, and the financially illiterate.

Do you really? Maybe it's country-specific, but in Australia there are no programs which give you that many benefits. Likely the best are the airline points, and even then they don't cover close to the payment processing fee total.

Besides the various more complicated rewards systems, you can get 2% cash back on a few cards, although 1 or 1.5% is more common. 2% is most of the transaction fee, in some cases more.