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‘Lopping,’ ‘Tips’ and the ‘Z-List’: Bias Lawsuit Explores Harvard’s Admissions

nytimes.com

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Re: ‘Lopping,’ ‘Tips’ and the ‘Z-List’: Bias Lawsuit Explores Harvard’s Admissions

#91

Post by imgabe »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #70
IvyAdmisions wrote: post #68

From an earlier thread: I was a college admissions officer for a few years and am familiar with the process at the top Ivies. The outcome is racist but there's no intent to be racist. Imagine your job is to create the best possible 2000-student freshman class for Harvard from the 40,000 students who apply. You review the applications and notice to your horror that 600-1000 of them all have perfect or near perfect tes…

We don't discriminate against asian people, just their problematic culture.

Funny how you substituted culture for the word application in the OP. Is it your belief that college applications are the sum total of Asian culture?

Re: ‘Lopping,’ ‘Tips’ and the ‘Z-List’: Bias Lawsuit Explores Harvard’s Admissions

#92

Post by golergka »

speedplane wrote: post #23

I understand the outrage of racial discrimination in this case, but I'm saddened over the lack of outrage over Harvard's self-described "Z-List" students who get into the school solely based on their family's money and power. No one is suing Harvard over the fact that you can buy your way in. We've come to accept that money and legacy power provides access and opportunity regardless of merit. If that more fundamental…

It's a private university. Why shouldn't you be able to buy your way in?

Re: ‘Lopping,’ ‘Tips’ and the ‘Z-List’: Bias Lawsuit Explores Harvard’s Admissions

#93

Post by dilap »

IvyAdmisions wrote: post #68

From an earlier thread: I was a college admissions officer for a few years and am familiar with the process at the top Ivies. The outcome is racist but there's no intent to be racist. Imagine your job is to create the best possible 2000-student freshman class for Harvard from the 40,000 students who apply. You review the applications and notice to your horror that 600-1000 of them all have perfect or near perfect tes…

how do you explain the fact that admissions officers rated asian students lower on "personality" than alumni interviewers?

from here:

https://infoproc.blogspot.com/2018/06/harvard-discrimination...

Re: ‘Lopping,’ ‘Tips’ and the ‘Z-List’: Bias Lawsuit Explores Harvard’s Admissions

#94

Post by fmajid »

They just repurposed a system that was designed in the 1930s to keep Jews out, to keeping Asians out. The smoking gun is how the admissions committee's ratings for “personality” differ so much from alumni volunteer interviewers.

Re: ‘Lopping,’ ‘Tips’ and the ‘Z-List’: Bias Lawsuit Explores Harvard’s Admissions

#95

Post by chillacy »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #70
IvyAdmisions wrote: post #68

From an earlier thread: I was a college admissions officer for a few years and am familiar with the process at the top Ivies. The outcome is racist but there's no intent to be racist. Imagine your job is to create the best possible 2000-student freshman class for Harvard from the 40,000 students who apply. You review the applications and notice to your horror that 600-1000 of them all have perfect or near perfect tes…

We don't discriminate against asian people, just their problematic culture.

We don’t discriminate against black people, just their problematic culture.

Still doesn’t sound great. If you use race as a feature, you’ll give and deny opportunities based on race.

Re: ‘Lopping,’ ‘Tips’ and the ‘Z-List’: Bias Lawsuit Explores Harvard’s Admissions

#96

Post by fmajid »

speedplane wrote: post #23

I understand the outrage of racial discrimination in this case, but I'm saddened over the lack of outrage over Harvard's self-described "Z-List" students who get into the school solely based on their family's money and power. No one is suing Harvard over the fact that you can buy your way in. We've come to accept that money and legacy power provides access and opportunity regardless of merit. If that more fundamental…

Well, how else would George W. Bush get in?

Re: ‘Lopping,’ ‘Tips’ and the ‘Z-List’: Bias Lawsuit Explores Harvard’s Admissions

#97

Post by paulsutter »

IvyAdmisions wrote: post #68

From an earlier thread: I was a college admissions officer for a few years and am familiar with the process at the top Ivies. The outcome is racist but there's no intent to be racist. Imagine your job is to create the best possible 2000-student freshman class for Harvard from the 40,000 students who apply. You review the applications and notice to your horror that 600-1000 of them all have perfect or near perfect tes…

You might want to reconsider your distaste for the robotics club. Take a look at the CEOs of the 10 most valuable companies now vs 10/20/30 years ago (Hint: Larry Page, Mark Zuckerburg, Jeff Bezos, Jack Ma, Satya Nadella...) Jack Ma was rejected by Harvard Business School ten times, by the way.

Expect big changes in banking over the coming decades as well. You may want to evolve your thinking.

Re: ‘Lopping,’ ‘Tips’ and the ‘Z-List’: Bias Lawsuit Explores Harvard’s Admissions

#98

Post by [deleted] »

IvyAdmisions wrote: post #76
reitzensteinm wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't discriminate against asian people, just their problematic culture.

Correct. There's a belief at the very top of these schools that they only want so many people leading one-dimensional lives focused on entering upper middle class trades like law and medicine.

[deleted]

Re: ‘Lopping,’ ‘Tips’ and the ‘Z-List’: Bias Lawsuit Explores Harvard’s Admissions

#99

Post by arkh »

drawnwren wrote: post #77
zimablue wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extracurriculars have been moved away from in the UK because you're basically discriminating on class. I went to a uni much like the one you describe, Imperial College London. It has it's problems but I wouldn't have traded all the engineers and scientists for lit students. Pretty sure we produce our share of investment bankers. A uni discriminating on extracurriculars and perceived sociability is insane. We're suppo…

Keep in mind that top 5 US schools are taking a much smaller percentage of a much larger population. They simply can't differentiate on academic performance alone. They generally admit somewhere around 5% of their applicants. Keeping in mind that those applicants are self-selecting, to some degree, thanks to the previously known admit rates and high application fees -- they have to use something else. A professor of…

In France, the most sought after enginnering schools use an entrance exam. No need to check for old academic performances as everyone is tested on the same things.

They usually also have alternate admittance system but that's for 2% or 3% of students.

Re: ‘Lopping,’ ‘Tips’ and the ‘Z-List’: Bias Lawsuit Explores Harvard’s Admissions

#100

Post by gaius »

Veelox wrote: post #20

I think the part of the issue that bothers me most is how much of a double standard there is between what counts as racism against African Americans and rasism against Asian Americans. Objectively, if you have two identical applications to Harvard except one is labeled black and the other is labeled Asian, the black one has a higher chance of success. They do the same thing with fake job applications with white names…

As a non-white who doesn’t fit into any of the pre-defined buckets, race-specific programmes have always bothered me too. I never play the race card to gain advantage but hypothetically if I’m as generally discriminated against as a member of group X but there’s a quota for X that I’m not eligible for then I’ve been double-discriminated against.
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