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European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

europa.eu

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Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#91

Post by dalore »

ekianjo wrote: post #15
rjvbk wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple does not have a monopoly dominant position. In my country I think they are like 10% of the market. You can't abuse your dominant position if you don't have one.

Android does not have a monopoly either. You can buy an iPhone.

This is talking about from the perspective of phone manufacturer. As a phone manufacturer you can't license iOS so that's out. You can really only license Android and if you do you have to also install Google Apps, Chrome, and make Google the default search engine on your phone.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#92

Post by codeulike »

amelius wrote: post #55

I'm wondering how such a fine actually comes into existence. How does some EU committee get the idea that Google is anti-competitive here? Is this the result of lobbying by competitors? Can we somehow post the EU about instances where companies are being anti-competitive, and get them to take action somehow? Given the enormous amount of anti-competitive behavior we see every day in the news, I can't help but feel thi…

Well if there was one group I would expect to complain about anti-competitive behaviour, that would probably be competitors.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#93

Post by ekianjo »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #27
ekianjo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android does not have a monopoly either. You can buy an iPhone.

A monopoly is not defined by the possiblity that there are other products available for purchase on the market, but rather how many products have been purchased and are in use. Using your reasoning, Microsoft could never have had a monopoly on Windows because you always could have bought a Mac.

A monopoly is exactly that. Mono means one. Thats the root of the word. What you are describing is a dominant position, which is completely different since its a relative definition.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#94

Post by repolfx »

rusk wrote: post #84
repolfx wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That first claim is clearly wrong though. Firstly, Android doesn't have a monopoly. Apple does fine in Europe and their devices can be bought everywhere. Secondly, there are device makers that didn't cut a deal with Google, notably the Amazon phones and tablets. They weren't that popular with consumers but that's not Google's fault: it just means consumers highly value the additional services Google provides.

> That first claim is clearly wrong though. No it isn't. But your attempt at refutation is. > Android doesn't have a monopoly. Apple does fine in Europe Apple has its segment. Android is pretty much everything else. It is "dominant" in the market. > Secondly, there are device makers that didn't cut a deal with Google The complaint relates specifically to access to google play services.

But Android isn't a phone maker. It's a component that is usually customised.

Now go look at who are making phones on this base: Samsung is the most popular but it doesn't have a monopoly.

Is the EU going to fine ARM next for having a monopoly on mobile CPUs?

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#95

Post by heracles »

bwb wrote: post #61

This one frustrated me to read, i think they should have gotten involved sooner and worked with google. Instead they slap a crazy high fee for something that is vague in violation. It does feel a bit like a vendetta here by the EU.

In most (all?) other fields of law you are expected to abide by the rules as they are stated, or risk being punished by the legislative powers. That's not a vendetta, that's law as it is most commonly practiced.

I don't see why EU should "work with google" to make them follow regulations (EDIT: beyond the threat of punishment).

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#97

Post by rusk »

oliwarner wrote: post #83
rusk wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of felt the same about the Apple Tax / Irish Revenue Commissioners thing. On looking into the judgement however it appeared as though both parties actively sought to subvert competition rules under a disingenuous "veil of ignorance" . Warning shots had been fired earlier but the practices continued hence the fine. I haven't read into the details of this judgement yet but you may well find similar reasoning the…

That's not a fine against Apple, it's a demand that Ireland corrects past behaviour that has been deemed state aid. While it's certainly Apple's prerogative to play EU states off against each other to get the best deal, it should have been blindingly obvious that what it was getting from Ireland would be, and should be reversed.

The demand was that Apple pay €13B in back taxes.

> it should have been blindingly obvious

and yet, it took a deep-dive investigation by the commission with a team of specialists to untangle it.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#98

Post by oliwarner »

cncrnd wrote: post #81

This line in the article got to me, "The fine would top the EU’s €2.4 billion antitrust decision against Google just over a year ago." It looks like the EU has created a piggy bank with these regulations on hostage tech corporations. I wonder how much of the large fines is attributed to prosecutors or politicians trying to make a name for themselves. Anyone know how often these record fines hold up on appeal? Edit: W…

You're talking as if these are baseless claims.

The EU has laws. Some of these are different to those in the US, not just in wording, but in aim. There's definitely a much stronger drive to protect consumers from companies exploiting them through data and market abuse, wherever those companies are.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#99

Post by ckastner »

cncrnd wrote: post #81

This line in the article got to me, "The fine would top the EU’s €2.4 billion antitrust decision against Google just over a year ago." It looks like the EU has created a piggy bank with these regulations on hostage tech corporations. I wonder how much of the large fines is attributed to prosecutors or politicians trying to make a name for themselves. Anyone know how often these record fines hold up on appeal? Edit: W…

> It looks like the EU has created a piggy bank with these regulations on hostage tech corporation

Or is it the tech corporations holding consumers hostage, and are regulators trying to fight that.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#100

Post by Radle »

garmaine wrote: post #79
arghwhat wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Variable fines are generally set based on revenue, rather than profits.

If so, this is a flaw. Not all businesses have the same margin.

You can hide profit on the paper, by investing it. So it is impossible to fine under consideration of profits.

The only way to do is to use revenue, but judges should still consider the business profit margin.

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