The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens • Hacker News Board

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#91

Post by maxsilver » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 1:58 PM UTC

stillworks wrote: post #57

mirimir wrote: post #30

So how are touchscreens OK, but using smartphones while driving isn't OK? I mean, I got pulled over once for a little lane wandering while adjusting the radio. Which had knobs.

Playing the devil's advocate here... but it's easier to show advertisements if a screen is available ? The skeptical side of me thinks that car manufacturers are simply preparing us slowly to accept screens in the car so that the next generation accepts it by default. I recently switched to a car which is the outgoing generation of that particular model and (almost ironically) has a physical button on the dashboard t…

> The skeptical side of me thinks that car manufacturers are simply preparing us slowly to accept screens in the car so that the next generation accepts it by default.

I'm not quite this cynical. I think car manufactures got all excited by the tech (in part due to Tesla just lazily slapping in a huge touchscreen and getting lots of coolness points for it, and in part due to the massive success of Android / iPhone / iPad), and decided they wanted cars to have that too. Car manufacturers are roughly 5 years behind current tech, so they rushed into touchscreens and by the time they got their products to market, the tech felt dated and the UX was never well thought out.

However, smarter car manufacturers learned from that and are now moving away from the touchscreen-only controls now, using them just for auxiliary needs or for things that really require them (like GPS navigation).

Consider the the Gen 1 Volt, where 99% of all buttons are identical touch-only pads. http://hanabi.autoweek.com/sites/default/files/styles/gen-12... As much as I love this car, this console is a huge UX disaster every bit as bad as a touchscreen-only car, and doesn't even earn any 'coolness' points for doing it.

Then in the Gen 2 Volt, they went back and put in lots of distinct physical buttons and dials for those previously-touch-only actions https://electromotivela.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/chevy... Not perfect, but this is a massive improvement over the prior model.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#92

Post by Shikadi » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:02 PM UTC

degenerate wrote: post #77

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #56

I sometimes feel I am in a minority of one these days. Just about every car I've owned, I develop a muscle memory of where all the important switches are, and how far to turn to "hot enough" or "cool enough" etc. Same for most things around - I know fairly well how far to turn the oven for 180 +-10, no need to look. I might check if it's something especially sensitive (rare). Thanks to iPhone (I have one, and like it…

I still drive a 'dumb' car with actual buttons and knobs, because I loathe (with a passion) almost every car UI I have interacted with. I haven't been in a Tesla yet, but all the big makers (GM, Nissan, Audi, etc) get the interfaces so wrong, to the point where I assume it was their intention. I'd be interested to hear of any cars that get it right.

I really like the interface Mazda came up with. Right by the shifter there's a knob that controls everything on the screen, which is as easy to glance at as the speedometer. Muscle memory still works to an extent

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#93

Post by philbarr » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:03 PM UTC

garadox wrote: post #74

Having driven with the Tesla touchscreen, I can tell you you don't need to use it much while driving. The dials in the steering wheel can adjust the temperature, voice control is great for navigation and for selecting music, and range, performance data is on the dashboard (for non model 3). If you need to do something complex like select a destionarion on the map, I don't think there's any interface that would let yo…

I have a car with voice control and it's terrible for navigation with my 4 year old in the back seat. Seems it can't understand the phrase, "Drive to home why are you saying that daddy what did you say are you talking to the car daddy why?"

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#94

Post by segmondy » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:03 PM UTC

avoutthere wrote: post #50

This is why I will never own a Tesla Model 3. If I can't adjust the air conditioning while looking at the road, I don't want it.

Or maybe you just can't afford it and are looking for a reason to make yourself feel better. :D How far long do you think before Tesla will support voice control? Or perhaps ML driven system that knows how to adjust the climate based on the passengers? Tesla is a computer/car hybrid ya know?

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#95

Post by syntheticnature » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:06 PM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #56

I sometimes feel I am in a minority of one these days. Just about every car I've owned, I develop a muscle memory of where all the important switches are, and how far to turn to "hot enough" or "cool enough" etc. Same for most things around - I know fairly well how far to turn the oven for 180 +-10, no need to look. I might check if it's something especially sensitive (rare). Thanks to iPhone (I have one, and like it…

Laws mandating backup cameras on cars have helped spread touchscreens, as that video screen takes up dashboard real estate. In my relatively new Outback it's only for the radio, and I have steering wheel controls (as well as a physical volume and tuner knob), but it's still a regression to some degree.

Don't get me wrong, with cars getting taller it's good to have backup cameras (and indeed it was part of my thinking in selecting the car, having recently had a nephew reach walking age), but the desire to make it multitask creates the touchscreen urge.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#96

Post by Shikadi » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

sumedh wrote: post #62

carlob wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you buy it then? I think that all the marketing of "touchscreen: oooh shiny!" is working, and there is very little we can do about bad interfaces unless we vote with our feet.

Is there any other non Mac trackpad which just works. Once you use a Mac trackpad, its hard going back to something else.

Personally, no laptop I've ever owned had at trackpad that _didn't_ just work. Of course there were a handfull in the store at any given time that were mediocre, but that's why I try before I buy. The Mac trackpad is definitely great, don't get me wrong, but in my experience poor trackpads only appear on certain business models and cheap flimsy models. (Currently using a two or three year old Lenovo thinkpad yoga, the trackpad has always worked great)

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#97

Post by bunderbunder » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:12 PM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #56

I sometimes feel I am in a minority of one these days. Just about every car I've owned, I develop a muscle memory of where all the important switches are, and how far to turn to "hot enough" or "cool enough" etc. Same for most things around - I know fairly well how far to turn the oven for 180 +-10, no need to look. I might check if it's something especially sensitive (rare). Thanks to iPhone (I have one, and like it…

I've been thinking about switching back to a basic MP3 player for my listening-to-stuff-while-on-the-go needs.

The device being connected to the Internet is convenient for not having to think about downloading podcasts and suchlike. Having to physically claw the device out of my pocket, push my sunglasses up, and squint in the bright sunlight in order to find the spot on the screen where I need to tap in order to rewind 15 seconds so I can catch whatever I missed because of that dump truck that just drove past, though, is getting annoying.

After many years, I was almost to the point where my muscle memory was good enough to do it without taking my phone out of my pocket. Then the latest iOS dropped, and they both moved the relevant touch targets and shrunk them down to something like 5mm square.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#98

Post by RandallBrown » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:13 PM UTC

digi_owl wrote: post #58

kjeetgill wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the mixed mode works really well. Touchscreens are pretty natural and intuitive, especially for things like ATMs, but you can't have braille on ATM touch screens so you need the buttons no matter what. At least in the US they usually have headphone jacks to replace the information presented on the screen though, and since you have a screen you might as well make it a touch screen.

> Touchscreens are pretty natural and intuitive Try to watch someone in their 60s operate them and you will learn that the are anything but. My dad find them endlessly frustrating, as his first instinct when talking about something in an image or something is to put his finger on it. But that invariably triggers something on such a screen. He also struggles with things like Google Maps on a PC with a scroll mouse, as…

Try watching children operate touchscreen and you'll see that they are quite intuitive.

The biggest difference is they don't have 60+ years of experience telling them what won't work (because it didn't used to) like your dad probably does.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#99

Post by Marsymars » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:13 PM UTC

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #56

I sometimes feel I am in a minority of one these days. Just about every car I've owned, I develop a muscle memory of where all the important switches are, and how far to turn to "hot enough" or "cool enough" etc. Same for most things around - I know fairly well how far to turn the oven for 180 +-10, no need to look. I might check if it's something especially sensitive (rare). Thanks to iPhone (I have one, and like it…

I live in a climate that has cold winters, and have Raynaud's syndrome. If it's cold outside, I wear -30C rated mountaineering mitts, and I'm fine, as long as I don't expose my hands to the cold. Touchscreens (and tiny steering wheel buttons) in cars are literally unusable for me for a good portion of the year.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Touchscreens

#100

Post by seqastian » Tue, Jul 03, 2018, 2:15 PM UTC

degenerate wrote: post #77

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #56

I sometimes feel I am in a minority of one these days. Just about every car I've owned, I develop a muscle memory of where all the important switches are, and how far to turn to "hot enough" or "cool enough" etc. Same for most things around - I know fairly well how far to turn the oven for 180 +-10, no need to look. I might check if it's something especially sensitive (rare). Thanks to iPhone (I have one, and like it…

I still drive a 'dumb' car with actual buttons and knobs, because I loathe (with a passion) almost every car UI I have interacted with. I haven't been in a Tesla yet, but all the big makers (GM, Nissan, Audi, etc) get the interfaces so wrong, to the point where I assume it was their intention. I'd be interested to hear of any cars that get it right.

Biggest reason why i wouldn't get a Tesla. All i want is a Golf cart with doors and a plug for my phone really. Keep the 15" screen that sucks my battery dry.