150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees • Hacker News Board

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#91

Post by mygo » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 12:58 AM UTC

mygo wrote: post #41

djrogers wrote: post #6

This is one of the enormous penalties we as a nation have to pay because neither of our political parties actually wants to solve the illegal immigration issue. Republicans get to use ‘illegal immigrants taking jobs’ as a stick to beat democrats with, and progressives use cries of racism to rally support amongst Latino voters. Meanwhile anyone who espouses common sense ideas such as reforming our immigration policy g…

> anyone who espouses common sense ideas such as reforming our immigration policy gets called a racist and ‘anti-immigrant’. bold statement. source?

2 downvotes yet not a single source. Hasty generalizations such as “any time someone does x, y happens” aren’t enough to convince everyone, but they do make for a strong emotional response for some. Such as knee-jerk anonymous downvotes when anyone asks for any piece of real data to back up the claim, without giving explanations why.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#92

Post by abc_lisper » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 1:07 AM UTC

mavelikara wrote: post #87

abc_lisper wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that? They must be partial to Infosys. I mean, what did it do. https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.asp... > These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system. Right, the startups in bay area, good groups at Apples, Googles and Facebooks of the world are filled with people from Infosys ;) >Literally every scam I…

> If anything, most of the technically competent desi people in US have a US degree. What I understood GP to be saying is that "most desi people in US having a US degree are technically incompetent". Both these view points are not incompatible, and true in my experience.

Good point!

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#93

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 1:24 AM UTC

abc_lisper wrote: post #78

throwaway12122 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that? Why is nobody talking about the 100 thousand Indian students who come to US every year? Who is employing them? These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system. They go through lengths to stay in US. They will settle for low salary so that they don't have to leave the country. Literally every scam I saw in H1B is from body shop…

> Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that? They must be partial to Infosys. I mean, what did it do. https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.asp... > These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system. Right, the startups in bay area, good groups at Apples, Googles and Facebooks of the world are filled with people from Infosys ;) >Literally every scam I…

[deleted]

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#94

Post by UncleEntity » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 1:38 AM UTC

cfadvan wrote: post #88

UncleEntity wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...unless you really think that a person born in Tuvalu should have 130,000 times higher chance of a green card than a person born in India. I personally think people (and capital) should be able freely move anywhere they want without having to worry about some arbitrary lines on a map but that's not the point, the point is no matter how you look at it someone is going to be "discriminated" against so a person from…

Honest question, why do you think that there should be totally free movement? Let’s say the US economy implodes, should a few hundred million Americans be allowed to pick a country to take over by default and sheer strength of numbers? What if half the population of India felt like moving to Mexico? What if half of the population of Mexico felt like moving to Vanu’Atu?

There's a difference between displacing the local population (which you imply) and moving somewhere there's better opportunities (jobs, housing, &etc). As long as there's no coercion or violence involved then who's the victim if my new neighbor is from Guatemala?

Plus it'd be pretty hard to be an oppressive dictatorship (looking at you, California) if the people could just up and move to a less oppressive regime (like Arizona). Of course I'm (mostly) joking with my example but a CA->AZ mass migration is happening as we speak and nobody is calling for a wall on the border (yet). They can't put up massive apartment/condo monstrosities fast enough to handle all the new folks moving here and presumably they're finding jobs without too much trouble.

So, yeah, I think if governments had to compete to retain their "subjects" the world would be a much better place and people probably wouldn't need to relocate unless they really wanted to unlike today's multiple "migration crises" (their term, not mine).

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#95

Post by throwaway12122 » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 1:41 AM UTC

abc_lisper wrote: post #78

throwaway12122 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that? Why is nobody talking about the 100 thousand Indian students who come to US every year? Who is employing them? These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system. They go through lengths to stay in US. They will settle for low salary so that they don't have to leave the country. Literally every scam I saw in H1B is from body shop…

> Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that? They must be partial to Infosys. I mean, what did it do. https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.asp... > These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system. Right, the startups in bay area, good groups at Apples, Googles and Facebooks of the world are filled with people from Infosys ;) >Literally every scam I…

>They must be partial to Infosys. I mean, what did it do. https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.asp....

I am not quite sure if LCA is an accurate metric of visa count. For example, I had my visa renewed 3 times so far. Every time, they filed for an LCA. I had to relocate one time. For that also, an LCA was filed. Then another one for my green card PERM or I-140 stage. People who come from India and work for TCS, Infosys etc end up relocating more often. Also, unlike American companies, visas are given to Indian companies only for 1-2 years and sometimes even less (American companies usually get for 3 years). Further, 25405 number doesn't mean they all were deputed from India. Indian companies hire a lot from US. They actually prefer hiring these students because they are desperate for a visa and are willing to settle for a lower salary. If they have to bring someone from India, they have to file the h1b application, hope they get into lottery and then only they can even think of putting them in a project. Most clients won't even want to wait that long unless they had been working on that project for a while and has acquired good knowledge. Where as for students, they can hire them, and file for h1b in the next few months (students get upto 18 months of something called OPT that allows them to work without h1b). This is precisely what's happening in my company. Same I heard is the case for Infosys. And these companies also hire people who are in the green card queue.

>Right, the startups in bay area, good groups at Apples, Googles and Facebooks of the world are filled with people from Infosys ;)

100 thousand Indian students come to US every year. How many of them end up working in these companies? Your own list shows less than 15k.

Among the deputed ones from India, the good ones never stay in the likes of Infosys. While I don't know anybody who went to Google or Facebook, I know a few who jumped from these Indian consultancies to Amazon, Intel and few other Silicon Valley companies. So, I don't think its fair to dismiss a person working for an Indian consultancy company as incompetent. My friend in Infosys was saying recently that a lot of people are joining Amazon and a few other companies like them these days. They can't be stupid if they are getting hired in these companies, right?

Also, I was recently talking to 2 of my friends from Infosys on 2 separate occasions. Both said there teams were trying to hire people locally (Americans), and both had the same opinion as you about the people who came for interviews about skills and competency.

> If anything, most of the technically competent desi people in US have a US degree.

I actually developed a bad opinion of them based on their performance in my own company. People who end up in good colleges probably are good. But those who come from tier 2 and lower colleges are not going to be good just because they studied in a US college.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#96

Post by throwaway12122 » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 1:46 AM UTC

badminton1 wrote: post #59

cletus wrote: post #33

So this is the result of several factors that are at odds with each other. 1. There is no per-country quota on H1Bs 2. There is a per-country quota on EB-1/2/3 GCs 3. And this is crux of the problem: H1Bs are issued indiscriminately, most problematically to so-called bodyshops. There are various proposals to fix the immigration backlog. There's one bill that would get rid of per-country quotas. I wonder what that wou…

Infosys and Tata are far worse than that. They request power of attorney from employees, file their tax returns on their behalf and steal their tax return money. Some employees do not receive their full wage. In paper they meet H-1B salary requirements but in practice they don't. They are not only in violation of immigration law but labor law as well.

This is no way correct. The employees file their own returns just like any other American. And they get paid the full salary mentioned in the offer letter they received when they were deputed.

The only "violation" I know these companies do is that they make the employee sign a bond that they have to come back to India and give a 3 months notice period if they want to resign while in US. And this is not just Indian companies. I was surprised to learn recently that the Indian division of an American product company (top 1 or 2 in the world in what they do) has a 12 months notice period with around 10 lakh rupees bond. Compared to that, Indian companies are less evil.

Another thing the Indian companies do is make you work on less desirable projects or otherwise you have to go back to India. And they don't treat their employees the same way a product company in America would do. They see us more or less as "you should be grateful to us that we gave you chance to come to US".

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#97

Post by throwaway12122 » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 1:54 AM UTC

mavelikara wrote: post #76

throwaway12122 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been riding taxis for the last 1 month because DMV refuses to renew my license until my work permit (visa) extension is approved. Nearly half of the drivers I met were from another continent. They are here legally and can work and live here without fear. But, just because I am from India, I cannot. I have to constantly live in fear of one day being told to go back. My employer asked me to go back to India 2-3…

Let me guess - you are in California, rt? California DMV is an absolute peach in this respect. They won't issue you an extension to your license while you wait for your H-1B extension. But if you are in California illegally, they have no problem handing you a license! Some California cities actually fight for the right to harbor illegal immigrants. But a legal immigrant waiting for an extension paperwork - sorry.

No. This is in Midwest. I am surprised California also has the same rule considering they have a lot of software companies there.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#98

Post by badminton1 » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 2:18 AM UTC

throwaway12122 wrote: post #96

badminton1 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Infosys and Tata are far worse than that. They request power of attorney from employees, file their tax returns on their behalf and steal their tax return money. Some employees do not receive their full wage. In paper they meet H-1B salary requirements but in practice they don't. They are not only in violation of immigration law but labor law as well.

This is no way correct. The employees file their own returns just like any other American. And they get paid the full salary mentioned in the offer letter they received when they were deputed. The only "violation" I know these companies do is that they make the employee sign a bond that they have to come back to India and give a 3 months notice period if they want to resign while in US. And this is not just Indian co…

It is correct because there are lawsuits and settlements involved. Maybe it is no longer the case but it has happened.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#99

Post by abc_lisper » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 2:32 AM UTC

throwaway12122 wrote: post #95

abc_lisper wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time the topic of H1B comes up, people bring up Infosys. Why is that? They must be partial to Infosys. I mean, what did it do. https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.asp... > These students are one of the primary abusers of the H1B system. Right, the startups in bay area, good groups at Apples, Googles and Facebooks of the world are filled with people from Infosys ;) >Literally every scam I…

>They must be partial to Infosys. I mean, what did it do. https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.asp... . I am not quite sure if LCA is an accurate metric of visa count. For example, I had my visa renewed 3 times so far. Every time, they filed for an LCA. I had to relocate one time. For that also, an LCA was filed. Then another one for my green card PERM or I-140 stage. People who come from India an…

> I am not quite sure if LCA is an accurate metric of visa count. For example, I had my visa renewed 3 times so far. Every time, they filed for an LCA

You can ignore the GC LCA, because most companies do it too, and companies like Google, Facebook and Apple at a higher rate. Even if Infosys applies twice per three years for a candidate's H-1, it stands at the top of that list.

> 100 thousand Indian students come to US every year. How many of them end up working in these companies? Your own list shows less than 15k.

And I am seeing very few people without a US degree in that 15k.

> Further, 25405 number doesn't mean they all were deputed from India. Indian companies hire a lot from US.

What is the point here? So does every other company.

> Both said there teams were trying to hire people locally (Americans)

It is a legal requirement.

> I actually developed a bad opinion of them based on their performance in my own company

Actually me too. I have worked with cliques from hell, coming from Infosys (mostly), but also Wipro and like. 10 people do the work of 1 person, with the end result being a mess.

Anecdotes aside, I don't know why you are fighting along Infosys here. The numbers are Facts. Also, not everybody in Infosys (US) is going through the same struggle you are. I am sorry you are going through this and I empathize with you, as I had some personal experience in that regard. I can also tell you this, this uncertainty will pass, but the after-effects will last for a while. Having a good social circle helps in mitigating it.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#100

Post by cfadvan » Sun, Jun 17, 2018, 2:34 AM UTC

UncleEntity wrote: post #94

cfadvan wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, why do you think that there should be totally free movement? Let’s say the US economy implodes, should a few hundred million Americans be allowed to pick a country to take over by default and sheer strength of numbers? What if half the population of India felt like moving to Mexico? What if half of the population of Mexico felt like moving to Vanu’Atu?

There's a difference between displacing the local population (which you imply) and moving somewhere there's better opportunities (jobs, housing, &etc). As long as there's no coercion or violence involved then who's the victim if my new neighbor is from Guatemala? Plus it'd be pretty hard to be an oppressive dictatorship (looking at you, California) if the people could just up and move to a less oppressive regime (lik…

You didn’t even remotely answer my question.

There's a difference between displacing the local population (which you imply) and moving somewhere there's better opportunities (jobs, housing, &etc). As long as there's no coercion or violence involved then who's the victim if my new neighbor is from Guatemala?

Sounds fine, but what happens in the scenarios I actually outlined in my first post? It’s not about displacement, but simple overwhelming numbers. Would Japan still be Japan if tens of millions of people from all around the world decided to live there? Would Albania still be Albania if a hundred million people from China and India showed up? If everyone in California were suddenly matched 3:1 by Sub-Saharan Africans, what happens?

In terms of language, culture, social services, law enforcement, etc... you’re suddenly in a whole new world. I don’t necessarily think it’s wrong for Japan, to use a precious example, to wish to remain Japanese in terms of their language and culture. I don’t think it’s wrong for Switzerland to balk at the notion of a hundred million Americans showing up either.

If you remove all restrictions, it’s not just about having a Guatemalan neighbor; that’s just immigration as it is today. The US for example has absorbed millions of Mexicans, Central and South Americans without any real problems. It is after all, a drop the proverbial bucket. The issue arises when it’s far more than that, order of magnitude more, and all at once.

What would happen to Guatemala if a sizeable chunk of the US, or China, India, or Africa immigrated there? It would implode, socially, financially, and its existing culture would be consumed. If everyone who wanted to live in Hawaii or Monaco could just move there, both places would be environmentally and economically trashed. Immigration is necessary and human, and there should be more of it in most cases than we see today. That doesn’t imply that total freedom of movement is workable or desirable either. I’d no more want to live in a country with no immigration limits, than I would in a country with no immigration; both would be broken.