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Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

nytimes.com

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Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that this thread and the "chatbots aren't so great after all" thread hit the front page on the same day. Anyone who actually thought people gave a shit about chatbots was either deluded, a chatbot API salesman, or a manager/owner trying to cut costs by downsizing their call/chat support center. Anyone who actually thought the gig economy was helping anyone but business owners was either deluded or a shill…

It helps the business owner and the consumer. Let’s not forget the consumer here. It also helps those willing to engage in gig activities. If Uber wasn’t marginally beneficial to drivers, why do they do it? Acting like Uber drivers are all idiots and need “protecting” is idiotic. If the economics don’t work, they quit.

If Uber wasn’t marginally beneficial to drivers, why do they do it?

If HFCS wasn’t healthy, why do people eat it?

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that this thread and the "chatbots aren't so great after all" thread hit the front page on the same day. Anyone who actually thought people gave a shit about chatbots was either deluded, a chatbot API salesman, or a manager/owner trying to cut costs by downsizing their call/chat support center. Anyone who actually thought the gig economy was helping anyone but business owners was either deluded or a shill…

It helps the business owner and the consumer. Let’s not forget the consumer here. It also helps those willing to engage in gig activities. If Uber wasn’t marginally beneficial to drivers, why do they do it? Acting like Uber drivers are all idiots and need “protecting” is idiotic. If the economics don’t work, they quit.

It's a negotiation with severe information asymmetry.

The business does hiring many times, so they reap the efficiencies of scale and get increasingly adept over time at hiding the risks they offload onto the contractors.

To balance the information asymmetry, the contractors would need to pool their efforts similarly, and improve their ability to discover the true compensation. In other words, collective bargaining, with specialists who understand the full terms of the contract including all that's hidden in the fine print.

All those government officials who pass laws crippling unions should stop treating business owners like idiots who need "protecting".

Increasing unionizion has many side effects on the wider economy, and it's not my purpose to flog them. Instead, I'm merely trying to illustrate that each individual contractor is at a significant disadvantage when negotiating.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#93
post #9

People(most people) like to do the same thing every day. Even me, I'm a programmer and have different tasks, but I get most of my work through one client. I would hate to be chasing down new clients all the time.

Is that true, do most people like doing the same thing every day? It certainly is not true for me. EDIT: A few repliers clarified that it's probably about the stable and reliable income, and not about the nature of the work that's done every day. I can agree with that!

Is that true, do most people like doing the same thing every day? It certainly is not true for me

It depends how broadly you define “same thing”. I think many if not most of us would happily focus on programming every day.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#94
post #5

It did reshape it. Turns out you can offload your costs to your 'employees' that hardly will organize and project costs and earnings to the future (like a competent business). I've talked with bunch of car sharing drivers who were bamboozled with car loans, get hit by traffic infractions, costs of maintenance and the list goes on and on. I feel that the gig economy preys on people who have not developed that risk man…

bring back unions

I think unions would work best as a replacement for the "good" (to workers) part of "HR".

For any unionized category/shop there should be a grouping of unions (adding a new union to that group should require a simple majority among a voting quorum of all active employees) which could thus collectively bargain between a large business and/or group of businesses and the workers that make that possible.

I also like the idea that unions on strike (in this case, groups of them; they'd agree to go out on strike together and vote together for it) don't disrupt business, but rather nullify profits. Maybe they agree that during "strikes" all compensation gets divided by charity/etc. This goes for the workers AND the businesses; both of whom still have to pay normal costs.

-- edit --

I forgot one other critical feature. Just like employees might take an employee though any of the unions, so to can the employee switch unions (I assume seniority and compensation offers would be favorable to prompt such a switch.)

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#95
post #42

When I first arrived in London my English was not good enough to speak on the phone, I had no idea what the London job market for developers looked like, I had no idea where should I live and where should I settle. So for the first 3-4 months, I did some wine waiting as a gig(agency work, no fixed place or hours. Like with Uber, you provide your own gear - like uniforms, bottle openers etc.) at the finest, the most i…

> really hard to do because of catch 22 To expand on what mrtksn means: in the UK, it is difficult to get a bank account without proof of address. It is also difficult to rent a flat without a UK bank account. There are a few ways around this: - Have a friend put you on their water bill and use this as proof of address. I suspect this is illegal. - Join a flatshare without getting on the lease, pay for your portion o…

4 - be a student.

If you are registered to a university, Barclay's will have something to sell you.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#96

The reduction in jobs in the gig economy has to be a direct result of the overall recovery of the economy. We are at a point where there are more jobs than workers to fill the jobs. Why would anyone take a crap gig job if they can get a steady paycheck? There are people that like the flexibility but the pay sux and no benefits for most of those jobs. The gig economy job is the new temp job. Just like temp jobs, they…

> the pay sux

Strongly disagree. Waiting tables or bartending at high-end restaurants could be considered gig work. Wedding photography is gig work. I have a friend who runs a stationary side business as a "gig". These jobs, if you are able to market yourself effectively and gain a good reputation and some solid contacts, can pay extremely well. I have a nice 9-5 with benefits and stability, but my friends in the above positions earn about the same I do and work close to half of my hours.

That obviously isn't the case for everyone who does these, but I don't think you can make the claim "the pay sux" for all gig work.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#97
post #42

When I first arrived in London my English was not good enough to speak on the phone, I had no idea what the London job market for developers looked like, I had no idea where should I live and where should I settle. So for the first 3-4 months, I did some wine waiting as a gig(agency work, no fixed place or hours. Like with Uber, you provide your own gear - like uniforms, bottle openers etc.) at the finest, the most i…

> really hard to do because of catch 22 To expand on what mrtksn means: in the UK, it is difficult to get a bank account without proof of address. It is also difficult to rent a flat without a UK bank account. There are a few ways around this: - Have a friend put you on their water bill and use this as proof of address. I suspect this is illegal. - Join a flatshare without getting on the lease, pay for your portion o…

That's correct. After 2 months of working and not being able to get paid, finally, someone at an HSBC branch accepted the letter from the agency and opened my account. With the statements of that account now I have proof of address and I can open as many bank accounts as my heart desires :)

Later I got a job as an UI developer in the City, but the first few months were hard.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#98
post #76
post #42

When I first arrived in London my English was not good enough to speak on the phone, I had no idea what the London job market for developers looked like, I had no idea where should I live and where should I settle. So for the first 3-4 months, I did some wine waiting as a gig(agency work, no fixed place or hours. Like with Uber, you provide your own gear - like uniforms, bottle openers etc.) at the finest, the most i…

You worked as a sommelier (that's the term, not "wine waiter") at high-cost restaurants without being able to speak rudimentary English? Bollocks.

Um. This is quite possible.

Talking on the phone is a unique thing, and takes more skill than talking in person. Not only does sound get somewhat distorted on the phone, but you don't have as many cues to take from when speaking. You can't see their facial expressions, for example. These help you understand words you aren't as familiar with. Not only that, but most folks are less patient on the phone than in person. You can be at an intermediate level of language and still have problems on the phone.

Not only that, but he's talking job-interview skill level phone-talking. Speaking in a second language is much more difficult under stress. This is exactly why I tend to use English instead of Norwegian with doctors and dentists.

In person, folks are more relaxed. If you forget a word, people fill it in. And with his job, he could easily learn the lingo he needed to do the job. He would have a limited context of things he actually knew, small talk isn't so bad, and for everything else you can ask.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#99
post #2

Reminds me of the economist Robert Solow's quip: "You can see the computer age everywhere but in the productivity statistics."

This is nonsense because anyone can see that the technology facilitated outsourcing and offshoring and logistics. The productivity that should have been in the old industrial heartlands happened - it just happened in China instead.

Re: Maybe the Gig Economy Isn’t Reshaping Work After All

#100
post #5

It did reshape it. Turns out you can offload your costs to your 'employees' that hardly will organize and project costs and earnings to the future (like a competent business). I've talked with bunch of car sharing drivers who were bamboozled with car loans, get hit by traffic infractions, costs of maintenance and the list goes on and on. I feel that the gig economy preys on people who have not developed that risk man…

bring back unions

I don't know if we need unions, but we need to recognize that the incentive for a business is only to be maximally profitable. And they are only responsible to their shareholders.

It would be nice if Governments properly recognized the value businesses provide with long term stable jobs, and aligned the incentive in a way that creates more stable and happy communities in the distant future.

Right now governments will give anything to Amazon to get them to move to town and bring all those jobs with them. But how much will we incentive McDonald's to keep jobs, and not to replace all their employees with perfect hamburger vending machines?

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