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Anthony Bourdain has died

bbc.com

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Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#91

Post by niftich »

Ntrails wrote: post #60

>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without…

People seek to draw a link between suicide and mental illness because the drastic outcome of suicide stretches one's comfort with the notion of informed consent.

The widespread societal taboo against suicide supposes that no rational person free of undue pressures would consent to ending their own life, therefore anyone who commits suicide must have been pushed to do so by serious factors that impaired their ability to properly consent.

This line of thinking effectively re-defines 'mental illness' to be that unknown variable that pushes outwardly functional people towards a choice that surprised the observer.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#92

Post by leeter »

warent wrote: post #5

I involuntarily gasped for air. This isn't someone I expected would die for a long time. Depression is a silent beast, and the stigma around talking about these problems is fatal as ever. Anthony was inspirational to me in part because, among many reasons, though he lived his life in a very unusual way he was still successful and always adventurous. The world has suffered a great loss today.

I'm saddened to say I didn't gasp, I was more saddened that his demons had finally claimed him. Bourdain struggled with addiction in the past and stated flat out when talking about it the reasons he got into drugs in the first place was an emptiness inside of himself. My condolences go out to his daughter who's just 11 and ex-wife as well as the crew at Zero Point Zero that's supported and worked with him for years.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#93

Post by dominotw »

Ntrails wrote: post #60

>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without…

> Am I not the master of my own existence

Not really, humans live in societies. Your existence is not purely yours. Maybe it applies to Gaint Pandas that spend all of their lives in solitude.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#94

Post by JshWright »

4183821747 wrote: post #73
jrs95 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Just to get rich selling pills that barely make a difference. As someone who’s probably had a prescription for every major anti-depressant, the only difference I never noticed from taking them is that my dick didn’t work. Not saying that depression isn’t a serious issue and that it can just be “thought away” though. But the drugs are really only helpful to some people, and there’s not much evidence to substantia…

The drugs can be really, really helpful to some people though. There is no doubt in my mind that Prozac saved my life 25 years ago.

Yep, my wife was on Zoloft for ~18 months after a pregnancy (postpartum depression), and it absolutely made a massive difference.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#95

Post by piker »

mieseratte wrote: post #61
volkl48 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes an awesome life can actually make it harder. It's easy to justify being depressed when you have a crappy life. (even though your depression probably doesn't have some cause like that) "I am depressed because I am living in a bad apartment in a bad part of town, working a bad job. If I get a better job and can afford a better apartment, I'll be happy." Assuming you have some hope for that happening, that can…

> "I have everything I could ever want, and I'm still depressed." Not only that, but it becomes very easy to tell yourself that you don't deserve success. It's easy to look at your life and say "I haven't really worked that much harder, lived that much more virtuously. I don't deserve this, this should be someone else..."

"I should’ve died in my 20s. I became successful in my 40s. I became a dad in my 50s. I feel like I’ve stolen a car — a really nice car — and I keep looking in the rearview mirror for flashing lights."

From the man himself.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#96

Post by ianai »

Ntrails wrote: post #60

>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without…

1. The universe is largely void and hostile to life.

2. Sure, there may be times where a person may rationally chose to die. That doesn’t negate the fragility and value of life for its sake. Two things can be true. Some people may have a rational reason to wish to end their lives, and some people who would end their lives would do much greater harm to themselves and loved ones than good.

3. It is my firm belief that we may use #1 to evaluate the worth and even ethicality of choices and actions. Those actions which solely promulgate life or enhance its existence are ethical. Those actions or choices which violate the former are unethical. Actions or choices which solely diminish the life or lives of others or outright end lives are unethical - unless that termination of life ends suffering larger than the benefits of life. That’s a very fine line.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#97

Post by JshWright »

jrs95 wrote: post #53
69132 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That whole "chemical imbalance" thing is a myth.

Yup. Just to get rich selling pills that barely make a difference. As someone who’s probably had a prescription for every major anti-depressant, the only difference I never noticed from taking them is that my dick didn’t work. Not saying that depression isn’t a serious issue and that it can just be “thought away” though. But the drugs are really only helpful to some people, and there’s not much evidence to substantia…

> there’s not much evidence to substantiate that this is just a chemical problem

> we aren’t dealing with any of the underlying social problems that probably play a much larger part.

I assume your concern for evidence applies to your pet theory as well, are you able to share any?

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#98

Post by simongray »

hellofunk wrote: post #80
simongray wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently read the book "Lost Connections" by Johann Hari which covers this issue. In fact, it's a really a book about some deeper problems of Western society (where depression, anxiety, etc. has been on the rise for a long time), so the pharmaceutical pill-pushing and the fairly debunked "chemical imbalance" explanation of depression really just sets the backdrop of the story. He emphasizes - like you mention - soc…

I’m curious, if depression doesn’t have some basis in chemical roots, then why is it often hereditary? Like other forms of mental illness which are chemical and hereditary, depression also exhibits these characteristics.

The current mainstream view is that depression is partly physical, so you're not wrong.

(edited for clarity) Some say that depression is a chemical imbalance, but this is not a mainstream view any longer (I think, although it's often mentioned in comments on the Internet), although treatment is still very much based on chemicals like SSRI drugs, which have very little proven effect, require constant upping of dosages to gain the small effect they provide, and also having several undesirable side-effects.

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#99

Post by [deleted] »

Ntrails wrote: post #60

>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without…

[deleted]

Re: Anthony Bourdain has died

#100

Post by choko »

chatmasta wrote: post #66
Ntrails wrote: post #60

>, I can only hope that people as a whole start seeing it as a complex issue and the stigma of mental issues and stress can lessen so that people can get help Possibly inappropriate - but why do people immediately link suicide and mental illness? Why do we stand in judgement declaring it wrong to decide ones own fate? Am I not the master of my own existence and do I not have the right to make a decision on it without…

Suicide is inherently a selfish act, and I think that’s where the perception of it being “wrong” comes from. Sure you have the right to decide your own fate, but you should consider that you affect other people. In taking your own life you’re also fucking up the life of everyone who cares about you, forcing them into a state of grief and possibly causing them to blame themselves for what was ultimately a selfish act…

Isn't it also a little selfish to expect someone to live out their life in misery simply because you would feel bad if that person ended their own life?

I have people in my life who have been struggling with mental illness for many years. If any of them decide that they no longer have the will to fight, I would not think less of them (or call them selfish) if they decide to end their own life. If I did, I would be selfish.

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