NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models • Hacker News Board

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#91

Post by [deleted] » Tue, May 15, 2018, 7:33 PM UTC

ggg9990 wrote: post #80

adventured wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your premise is very weak in relation to US sports being a supporting argument. It comes across as though you've never actually played football or been on a football team. Players on one team largely go out of their way to avoid injuring players on the other team. The vast majority of the game is free motion, not the application of violence. Another large fraction of the game is what can best be described as aggressi…

Perhaps a military metaphor is best —- the QB role is no more violent than Army general, and the players and soldiers are the ones who are most sickened by the violence and injury. That doesn’t change the fact that both football and war have fans who watch on TV and love to see the biggest hits and biggest bombs.

[deleted]

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#92

Post by awgm » Tue, May 15, 2018, 7:34 PM UTC

francisofascii wrote: post #65

privacypoller wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you that this addresses the game of football, but certainly not the business of football. Which one do you think the NFL cares more about?

If the NFL switched to two hand touch 10 years from now, people would still watch. The violence is not essential. The competition, strategy, amazing throws and catches, speed, team aspect, drama, and unpredictability make it fun to watch.

I would be very surprised if football survived at the level of popularity it enjoys now without the violent hits

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#93

Post by blueatlas » Tue, May 15, 2018, 7:37 PM UTC

bcohen5055 wrote: post #31

matte_black wrote: post #10

Only thing safer helmets will do is encourage players to hit harder and harder, until someone really gets killed. I hope one day I will get to see the end of football. Why would any parent enroll their child in this sport?

Yes, because seat belts and airbags only encourage people to drive faster and more reckless

But there's no legal or financial liability for a football player running faster or hitting harder. He can pretty much do it without recourse and actually have people cheer him for his impressive speed and strength.

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#94

Post by salvar » Tue, May 15, 2018, 7:44 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #87

jsgo wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal, but from what I've heard it tends to be that at the high school and earlier levels hitting is done in a more chaotic manner. Yes, they're not 300-plus pound athletes hitting people, but seems that even in the earlier stages it is detrimental.

It's also cumulative so someone doing 4 years in HS then stopping is inherently safer than someone that goes to collage and even that's safer than a 5+ year NFL run. Granted far more people play at lower levels but it's reasonable to consider cost benefits for each group. With the option to increase protection for people expected to continue to the next level.

The average NFL career is 3.3 years, so a HS football stint would actually be longer.

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#95

Post by jedberg » Tue, May 15, 2018, 7:44 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #10

Only thing safer helmets will do is encourage players to hit harder and harder, until someone really gets killed. I hope one day I will get to see the end of football. Why would any parent enroll their child in this sport?

> Why would any parent enroll their child in this sport?

For the poor, it is a way out. Even if you don't hit the pro level, being good at football can get you a full ride scholarship to a great school.

One of my friends at Berkeley was in exactly this situation. He grew up very very poor, played football at the local high school, and managed to get a football scholarship to Berkeley. He wasn't very good at football, and rarely played at all, but he did get a full ride scholarship that covered tuition, housing, food, books, and a small stipend for living expenses. He also got a job working in the residence halls, which also came with free housing and food, so he basically made money in college.

Then he graduated with a PhD in Education. He could have never afforded that without football.

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#96

Post by kodablah » Tue, May 15, 2018, 7:49 PM UTC

Twirrim wrote: post #89

vermontdevil wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rugby does not have a helmet (except for the padded ones) and yet they still have concussion issues. I think there’s no clear answer although I agree about removing face mask. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC155428/

As I understand it, Rugby has a lower incident rate of concussion, and it's more the outcome of accidents than as a direct aspect of the tackling. That said, it's a very different style of play in Rugby to American Football. Rugby players just don't deliberately go in with their head for the tackle, which is something you often see with NFL players (some NFL teams have experimented with helmet free tackling practice…

I see them lowering their heads into rucks or tackles. While there are fewer hits of course (in football, obstruction/blocking is encouraged off the ball) I think, anecdotally based on watching a lot of both, that rugby players and trainers don't account for concussion incidents as well. You see in both NFL and rugby league/union players shrugging off trainers attempting to take them out of a game, but I feel like I see many more rugby players returning to action after obvious grogginess akin to what I saw in the NFL a decade ago. There is under reporting in both sports too of course.

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#97

Post by salvar » Tue, May 15, 2018, 7:49 PM UTC

ggg9990 wrote: post #80

adventured wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your premise is very weak in relation to US sports being a supporting argument. It comes across as though you've never actually played football or been on a football team. Players on one team largely go out of their way to avoid injuring players on the other team. The vast majority of the game is free motion, not the application of violence. Another large fraction of the game is what can best be described as aggressi…

Perhaps a military metaphor is best —- the QB role is no more violent than Army general, and the players and soldiers are the ones who are most sickened by the violence and injury. That doesn’t change the fact that both football and war have fans who watch on TV and love to see the biggest hits and biggest bombs.

Given how strongly you talk about football here you must have a good understanding of the sport. How much experience have you had with football, either playing or watching?

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#98

Post by Retric » Tue, May 15, 2018, 7:55 PM UTC

salvar wrote: post #94

Retric wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also cumulative so someone doing 4 years in HS then stopping is inherently safer than someone that goes to collage and even that's safer than a 5+ year NFL run. Granted far more people play at lower levels but it's reasonable to consider cost benefits for each group. With the option to increase protection for people expected to continue to the next level.

The average NFL career is 3.3 years, so a HS football stint would actually be longer.

The average is dragged down by people that stop very quickly. People that stay for 5+ years are at much higher risks than someone that stops at 1. And again that's after 3-4 years in collage and 2-4 years in high-school.

So we are talking ~9 years vs up to 26+ when every year is more risky than the last because of cumulative damage.

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#99

Post by bgroins » Tue, May 15, 2018, 7:55 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #95

matte_black wrote: post #10

Only thing safer helmets will do is encourage players to hit harder and harder, until someone really gets killed. I hope one day I will get to see the end of football. Why would any parent enroll their child in this sport?

> Why would any parent enroll their child in this sport? For the poor, it is a way out. Even if you don't hit the pro level, being good at football can get you a full ride scholarship to a great school. One of my friends at Berkeley was in exactly this situation. He grew up very very poor, played football at the local high school, and managed to get a football scholarship to Berkeley. He wasn't very good at football,…

If only we used all of that money spent on football programs to pay for higher education for poor kids. Wishful thinking I know.

Re: NFL Releases Finite Element Helmet Models

#100

Post by alkonaut » Tue, May 15, 2018, 8:01 PM UTC

I read somewhere a lot of the concussions in football are not due to blunt hits to the head of the kind helmets can stop, but simply from extreme accelerations (such as after a big hit to the upper body) throwing the brain around inside the skull?

If that’s really the case then the troubling conclusion might be that the game is very hard to make safe through technology.