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List of screw drives

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Re: List of screw drives

#91

Post by meuk »

jgibson wrote: post #50

As a teenager I stripped nearly all the screws holding the crankcase of my motorcycle together before realizing that JIS was different from Phillips. Didn't help that most of the old steel screws had seized against the aluminium crankcase. After a few unsuccessful attempts with an impact driver, I ended up just welding nuts to the heads, waiting for the heat to soak, then then wrenching them off. Then threw the lot o…

I was just about to post something about the amount of screws I strip... I might want to look into this, ha!

Re: List of screw drives

#92

Post by stinos »

micheljansen wrote: post #75
blhack wrote: post #73

As far as I'm concerned, torx is the only reasonable screw anymore. It seems like most construction screws (at least in the US) have moved to this. Just to make the point: I've stripped out more torx drivers than I have torx heads. I can say I truly don't understand how phillips ever even took hold over flatheads. Cheap phillips head screws seem designed to strip out. Somebody elsewhere in this thread made the point…

As someone who has just remodelled an old house with loads of flatheads: you've got to be kidding me. I hate those things with a passion. Flathead screws only restrict the movement of the screwdriver in one dimension and allow it to move in the other one. This leads to the screwdriver to keep sliding out when you put force on under even the slightest angle. Phillips screws improve on this design by restricting moveme…

As someone who has just remodelled an old house with loads of flatheads: you've got to be kidding me. I hate those things with a passion.

Came here to say the exact same thing. Rusty flatheads, ah, such joy. Literally lost hours because of it.

Re: List of screw drives

#93

Post by TeMPOraL »

lsc wrote: post #85
agumonkey wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. I'm a bit shocked how effective this is. For years the sight of a torx or rarer socket would stop me from even thinking about opening a device. I don't know if it was impossible to find before but today you can buy most heads easily. And when you think about it, it's just a damn contact surface for a lever.. don't stop (unless there's a real safety hazard)

I find this to be really weird... Anyone who has worked on vehicles knows the importance of getting the exact right tool to unfasten a fastener (and the... consequences of using something that "almost works" - usually meaning you have to spend hours trying to get the fastener out) I mean, sure, you need tools to open things up... but the right bit is about a thousand times more important than an expensive bit, and fo…

> Anyone who has worked on vehicles knows the importance of getting the exact right tool to unfasten a fastener

If you're a pro auto shop, you can probably get your hands on all of the exactly right tools. If you're an individual, it's another story...

It's a matter of lag in the supply/demand loop. The moment Apple introduced pentalobe screws, or in general, the moment a different company introduces an unusual screw head, is the moment when you're very unlikely to be able to get your hands on appropriate drivers. As more and more products use the new head, the demand becomes big enough that eventually, appropriate drivers get available and cheap. From what I've seen, this can take years - longer than the lifetime of the first iteration of a product using the new screws. Enough to destroy end-user repairability for a whole category of products. After a while, the company will change screw heads again, rinse and repeat.

And the glue. That's just companies being assholes.

(Yes, I know there are technical benefits of using glue. They're especially pronounced if you don't consider end-user or third-party serviceability in your design process, and even more so if you explicitly try to eliminate it in your business strategy.)

Re: List of screw drives

#94

Post by akvadrako »

tlb wrote: post #2

It's remarkable that pretty much every feasible design has some traction. You might expect it to be winner-take-all.

It might be in the long run. Torx is the clear common-place winner, but it was patent-encumbered for a long time. I bet even Ikea will switch to them eventually.

Re: List of screw drives

#95

Post by DanBC »

Gracana wrote: post #70
stephen_g wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is compounded by the fact that our products go into marine environments - all our fasteners are 316 stainless but there are still sometimes galvanic issues.

Stainless fasteners are the worst. My company builds food equipment so they're a necessity, but... ugh. They gall terribly and they're squishy. If there happens to be a burr or crud in the threads, you might as well grab your angle grinder and drill, because that screw is not going to come out any other way.

It's interesting you say that, because I had a good experience with stainless!

I used to use a lot of stainless bolts on machines that went into hostile[1] environments. We used a variety of hex socket bolts, with thread lock compounds and calibrated torgue drivers to put them in and uncalibrated drivers to take them out when they eventually came back for refurb.

We rarely had problems putting them in or taking them out.

I don't know why problems were so rare. I think it being a safety critical industry helped: we bought expensive bolts and tools, and people had some training to use them.

[1] These were used on "Chock Control Interfaces". Here's a video. The box he's pushing buttons on is a chock control interface. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmwEB4DY_jc&t=169s

Here's an explanation of longwall mining and what a chock is (simply, powered roof supports that move forward as the cutting tool removes material): http://undergroundcoal.com.au/fundamentals/07_equipment_1cho...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longwall_mining#Equipment

Re: List of screw drives

#96

Post by TeMPOraL »

agumonkey wrote: post #58
hungerstrike wrote: post #15

It seems like choosing a screw drive is almost as difficult as choosing which programming library, framework or environment to use. Well, maybe not. New ones probably aren’t added quite as often.

Unless you use LISP sockets

In true Lisp fashion, my kitchen knives can macroexpand to fit into any screw socket I need them to.

Re: List of screw drives

#97

Post by agumonkey »

lsc wrote: post #85
agumonkey wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally. I'm a bit shocked how effective this is. For years the sight of a torx or rarer socket would stop me from even thinking about opening a device. I don't know if it was impossible to find before but today you can buy most heads easily. And when you think about it, it's just a damn contact surface for a lever.. don't stop (unless there's a real safety hazard)

I find this to be really weird... Anyone who has worked on vehicles knows the importance of getting the exact right tool to unfasten a fastener (and the... consequences of using something that "almost works" - usually meaning you have to spend hours trying to get the fastener out) I mean, sure, you need tools to open things up... but the right bit is about a thousand times more important than an expensive bit, and fo…

sure, for heavy machines you'll know because you can't get away with random tools. For electronics, you can force some screws out even with plyers if need be

Re: List of screw drives

#98

Post by lostlogin »

micheljansen wrote: post #75
blhack wrote: post #73

As far as I'm concerned, torx is the only reasonable screw anymore. It seems like most construction screws (at least in the US) have moved to this. Just to make the point: I've stripped out more torx drivers than I have torx heads. I can say I truly don't understand how phillips ever even took hold over flatheads. Cheap phillips head screws seem designed to strip out. Somebody elsewhere in this thread made the point…

As someone who has just remodelled an old house with loads of flatheads: you've got to be kidding me. I hate those things with a passion. Flathead screws only restrict the movement of the screwdriver in one dimension and allow it to move in the other one. This leads to the screwdriver to keep sliding out when you put force on under even the slightest angle. Phillips screws improve on this design by restricting moveme…

I’m sure you have worked this out but my technique is to scrape all the paint off very carefully, then crack the lock by turning the screw in the wrong direction. Sometimes I hit the screw driver with a hammer too. After the lock is broken, turn the screw the right way. This way, stripping the head isn’t such a problem as it’s burring off the head in the wrong directions, saving the important edge for actually getting it out.
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