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I am leaving llvm

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Re: I am leaving llvm

#91

Post by rhapsodic »

chickenfries wrote: post #86
rhapsodic wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's an opinion that makes it very hard to work with you, if I were a woman or minority. I wouldn't want you to review my code, wondering if you think I'm competent or if I'm an entitled person benefiting from unfair "advantages that have been heaped upon" me. So you're assuming because of my opinion, I would not treat you fairly? Of course! Anyone who deviates from the SJW line is de facto a bad person! There's no…

I regret answering. If you're not going to engage in good faith, but instead go on some tired diatribe about tribalism, then what hope do we have for understanding each other? You claim that you want to have a discussion, but then you strawman me like that. The irony of you complaining about "tribes" while you label everyone who disagrees with you an SJW... EDIT: > So you're assuming because of my opinion, I would no…

My ability to answer you has been hobbled by the moderator's warning, so I'd rather not answer at all. Have a nice day.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#92

Post by AdamM12 »

ylem wrote: post #81
AdamM12 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's pretending that racism and sexism doesn't exist? I don't see any previous comments on this thread saying that or even remotely implying it.

There was a comment in the previous thread suggesting that the diversity scholarship was sexist and racist. In a world where racism and sexism were absent, then a scholarship directed towards a particular gender or race would be racist or sexist. I believe the point of the original poster is that to label the scholarship as racist or sexist is to assume that we live in a world with racial/gender/ethnic equality.

Isn't denying someone eligibility on the basis of their skin color and sex racist and sexist? Again no one previously denied or even alluded to racism/sexism not existing.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#93

Post by leereeves »

ylem wrote: post #82
bmarquez wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who would qualify for the linked program, I agree. A lot of words just to say "no Asians allowed".

Can you or the parent comment on my you think that the above program is racist/sexist?

Maybe because it excludes people based on their race/sex?

Helping the disadvantaged is a noble goal, but race/sex is a poor proxy for privilege. That program would accept an African queen and exclude an Indian untouchable.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#94

Post by GiorgioG »

peterashford wrote: post #64
ropeadopepope wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's not so obvious is why that's a bad thing. Considering the fact that millions (possibly billions at this point) have been spent recruiting non-whites and non-males in tech, there's no lack of equality of opportunity here.

Monoculture doesn't foster a range of ideas. I work in games where having more women is great - we produce products that work better for more people and I find it balances out company culture

I've worked in companies where that have been predominantly white males and companies that are not - I've noticed ZERO difference in outcomes between the two.

The fact of the matter is there are more white males that pursue computer science than women, minorities, etc. That doesn't make all of us professional white males raging racists/sexists.

90% of nurses are women. Why don't these social justice warriors blow up the social web with that "injustice"?

Re: I am leaving llvm

#95

Post by jochung »

morvita wrote: post #16
GiorgioG wrote: post #6

These social justice warriors may seem well-meaning, but ultimately they are parasites. Their mission is never-ending and ultimately they overreach and this is the result. I just want to work with smart people. I don't care what gender they associate themselves with, what color they are, whether there's an equal distribution of any of these characteristics in my department. I just want to do my job and learn from sma…

I, too, dream of a world where I can work with smart people without regard to their race, sexuality, gender, whatever, but it is naive to think that we are already living in that world. Like it or not, the entire system is stacked against minorities in ways that aren't even obvious or noticeable from a position of privilege. I work as an engineer in an office of 120 people in the East Bay. There are three black peopl…

"Centuries of privilege" is the kind of idiocy only a sheltered American suburbanite could come up with.

A century ago millions of young white men were too busy dying in trenches and being gassed to death with mustard gas in a war none of them could vote on.

Children worked on the field, in factories, and in coal mines, like their fathers were expected to.

And yes, women stayed home and took care of the kids because without electricity, plumbing, appliances, refrigeration and cheap groceries, that was actually a laborious full time job, and people were poor. Not to mention that getting through child birth and infant mortality was a blessing for both mother and child.

None of them were given opportunities simply by existing. On the other hand, providing scholarships to specific ethnicities, or creating special women-only pathways to entry, that is exactly that.

What people like Damore have tried to point out is that expecting demographics and sentiment within a field to match the general population, or else the "playing field" is not level, is an unwarranted assumption. It also puts the blame for actually society wide issues on a small group of people who had nothing to do with it.

If you want more black people in tech, start by addressing the way the US school system is stratified entirely by social class. Maybe you'll see a difference, and maybe that IQ gap will shrink. Maybe it won't, and what new "leveling" policies will you want to introduce then? Don't push out or disadvantage others out of misplaced revenge, and don't cite your American tunnel vision as justification.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#96

Post by rhapsodic »

malvosenior wrote: post #23
mcintyre1994 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would indeed be objectionable! For someone unfamiliar with that history, can you give a few projects I should read up on to find out more?

Yes, you should read up on the Contributor Covenant. The creator of which is notorious for aggressively pushing to get the CoC included into projects and then harassing developers. Here's one of the more famous examples: https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 Also see how the creator tried to force this CoC into Ruby: https://bugs.ruby-lang.org/issues/12004

OMG, this is priceless:

  > Our community prides itself on niceness. What a code 
  > of conduct does is define what we mean by nice.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#97

Post by imbokodo »

candiodari wrote: post #78
chickenfries wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment made me think that someone had disparaged them for their political beliefs or religion, but after reading that doesn't seem to have happened, unless they left it out for some reason, but that would be odd. In fact, if I understand the letter correctly, the straw that broke OP's back was this: > https://www.outreachy.org/apply/eligibility/ To which I say... really? Ok, that's too bad that you don't want t…

Nope. People have publicly declared that out of fear of the social justice movement they will ban people, refuse to communicate as soon as disagreement with the prevailing political view manifests. That's what's in the CoC that's objectionable. > made me think that someone had disparaged them for their political beliefs Funny how you do that in a post that disparages him for his political beliefs. But your post is no…

> Damore and Eich...THAT's why they're EXCLUDING people for their political views

The actual exclusion can be seen by walking around the engineering departments of FAANG companies (or Market Street startups) and seeing virtually all male, white or Asian faces. One in eight Americans are black - where are they? That is the real exclusion. Damore was fired for effectively boasting about this exclusion.

It's illustrative that you ignore the massive exclusion of blacks and others from non-sweeping, non-cafeteria server jobs, and get ALL CAPS semi-hysterical that those who are dumb enough to align themselves with these exclusions and subjugations are the victims and excluded ones.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#98

Post by rhapsodic »

candiodari wrote: post #78
chickenfries wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment made me think that someone had disparaged them for their political beliefs or religion, but after reading that doesn't seem to have happened, unless they left it out for some reason, but that would be odd. In fact, if I understand the letter correctly, the straw that broke OP's back was this: > https://www.outreachy.org/apply/eligibility/ To which I say... really? Ok, that's too bad that you don't want t…

Nope. People have publicly declared that out of fear of the social justice movement they will ban people, refuse to communicate as soon as disagreement with the prevailing political view manifests. That's what's in the CoC that's objectionable. > made me think that someone had disparaged them for their political beliefs Funny how you do that in a post that disparages him for his political beliefs. But your post is no…

> Before you say "but it's not about excluding people", let me remind you about James Damore and Brendan Eich.

Bingo.

James Damore may be the tipping point where people start pushing back against this bullshit. To me, he's Galileo to Google's Catholic Church. He's the heretic that dared to defy the high priests of PC, and he got put on the rack for it.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#99

Post by rhapsodic »

imbokodo wrote: post #97
candiodari wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. People have publicly declared that out of fear of the social justice movement they will ban people, refuse to communicate as soon as disagreement with the prevailing political view manifests. That's what's in the CoC that's objectionable. > made me think that someone had disparaged them for their political beliefs Funny how you do that in a post that disparages him for his political beliefs. But your post is no…

> Damore and Eich...THAT's why they're EXCLUDING people for their political views The actual exclusion can be seen by walking around the engineering departments of FAANG companies (or Market Street startups) and seeing virtually all male, white or Asian faces. One in eight Americans are black - where are they? That is the real exclusion. Damore was fired for effectively boasting about this exclusion. It's illustrativ…

> Damore was fired for effectively boasting about this exclusion.

He did not boast about it, "effectively" or otherwise. That's a straight-up smear, attacking his character when you can't counter his logic.

Re: I am leaving llvm

#100

Post by zimpenfish »

rhapsodic wrote: post #48
peterashford wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever the root cause, the predominance of white males (of which I am one) in tech shows that there is a lack of representation of various groups. This ought to be blindingly obvious

> Whatever the root cause, the predominance of white males (of which I am one) in tech shows that there is a lack of representation of various groups. This ought to be blindingly obvious What I am well and truly fed up with is the implication that it is pernicious behavior on the part of white males that is responsible for this state of affairs. And that's not necessarily relevant to this particular SJW dustup, but i…

> the implication that it is pernicious behavior on the part of white males that is responsible for this state of affairs.

Historically, it has been, yes. Even today, there are pockets of white males who are virulently against anyone but them having access to their little clubhouses (cf GG for one prime example.)

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