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Co-living in London: Friendship, fines and frustration

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Co-living in London: Friendship, fines and frustration

#91

Post by isostatic »

mavdi wrote: post #85
isostatic wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's pretty safe too if London's latest murder spree hasn't convinced you yet The London murder rate is projected to be 180 this year, about 2 per 100k Rio's murder rate is 18 per 100k - about 10 times worse than London.

That statistic in skewed because most of the murders happen in the favelas within drug gangs. City areas are ripe with petty crime but murder is perhaps as widely seen as London. Plus... it's not infested with security cameras.

On the other hand London's figures are skewed by gangs. If you remove the 15-25 year olds that hang out with gang members, the murder rate is far lower.

Re: Co-living in London: Friendship, fines and frustration

#92

Post by dragonwriter »

mavdi wrote: post #85
isostatic wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's pretty safe too if London's latest murder spree hasn't convinced you yet The London murder rate is projected to be 180 this year, about 2 per 100k Rio's murder rate is 18 per 100k - about 10 times worse than London.

That statistic in skewed because most of the murders happen in the favelas within drug gangs. City areas are ripe with petty crime but murder is perhaps as widely seen as London. Plus... it's not infested with security cameras.

> That statistic in skewed because most of the murders happen in the favelas within drug gangs

But that (with “favela” replaced with he appropriate local term for underclass neighborhoods) is true pretty much every city everywhere.

> City areas are ripe with petty crime but murder is perhaps as widely seen as London.

Yes, but “if you exclude our underclass neighborhoods, our murder rate is the same as City X including it's underclass neighborhoods” is not making the argument you seem to think it is.

Re: Co-living in London: Friendship, fines and frustration

#93

Post by nelsonic »

vrbelli wrote: post #89
nelsonic wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@vrbelli I would love to read your " Top 10 List of Improvements " if you were able to re-build "The Collective" from scratch . I have no connection to "The Collective" I'm just curious how it could be "fixed".

Not really sure. I think in many ways it's a pipe dream. Without a shared purpose I think it's impossible to foster a real "community".

@vrbelli that's super insightful/useful! A sense of "shared purpose" is really difficult to create and impossible to "impose" (or worse "buy"!) I got the feeling (just from visiting "The Collective") that none of the people who designed/built the place had any intention of living there themselves ... It looked both "glossy" and "sterile" at the same time!

Do you think it would be better if there were fewer people like 50 instead of 500?

What about if existing residents got to "filter" the new "applicants"?

What are your thoughts on having an enforceable "code of conduct" to set the standard for interaction? (like some tech conferences and software projects have...)

Re: Co-living in London: Friendship, fines and frustration

#94

Post by rwmj »

darrenf wrote: post #26
misnome wrote: post #16

> The only co-living options in the UK are currently in London The only places branded with this buzzword, certainly. There are many, many people sharing a house with other people they don't otherwise know. And, of course, student accommodation. I wonder how much these rooms (which the article says were built for students) were actually going to cost for the students that would have lived there before it was bought a…

For my entire career (I'm a lifelong Londoner) I've been bemused by newcomers to the city who essentially refuse to even consider living beyond zone 2. I grew up on the border of Z3/4 and now live in Z6, but have worked either in zone 1 or beyond it (in travel terms) since late 1996. My gut feeling is that the horrific prices in the centre are very much tied to what seems to be a perception that the outskirts suck.

I love living next to the M25, but the unreliability of trains sucks the joy out of certain things. Zone 6 (on the tube) might be manageable though.

Re: Co-living in London: Friendship, fines and frustration

#95

Post by angus-prune »

mayniac wrote: post #31
dx034 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For students a flatshare is normal but all Germans I know that work full-time live in their own flat. In London, living on your own after university is basically impossible (unless you live very far out).

> In London, living on your own after university is basically impossible (unless you live very far out). Disagree, since I'm doing it right now 3 years after uni. I'm not paid amazingly, below average salary for London but above average for the rest of the UK. However half my paycheck goes on rent. My commute is about 45 minutes by tube or 20 minutes by motorbike so it's not too far out. The trick is to find an area…

You've said elsewhere that you're in the 40k range. Median Central London Salary is ~35k, so you're actually well above average salary, even in London.

Re: Co-living in London: Friendship, fines and frustration

#96

Post by vrbelli »

nelsonic wrote: post #93
vrbelli wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really sure. I think in many ways it's a pipe dream. Without a shared purpose I think it's impossible to foster a real "community".

@vrbelli that's super insightful/useful! A sense of " shared purpose " is really difficult to create and impossible to "impose" (or worse "buy"!) I got the feeling (just from visiting "The Collective") that none of the people who designed/built the place had any intention of living there themselves ... It looked both "glossy" and "sterile" at the same time ! Do you think it would be better if there were fewer people…

It's quite an interesting question. I agree it's impossible to impose, maybe even to create.

On university campus and in companies it's a natural occurence. You can have good or bad company culture but there will definitely be a company culture - which seems to be the problem at places like this. There simply isn't a culture.

The size is definitely part of the problem, 500 is way too many. On the other hand I also know people who share house with four other people but have no relation with them.

There was/is a code of conduct and lots of events at The Collective that tries to bond people together. Some people made friends and had their own little group they hung out with but it seemed like most went to a few events and then stopped going.

I might be pessimistic but I think it all comes down to a shared purpose - which you can't enforce unless people work, study or are obsessed with the same religion/politics/whatever.

And yes - it's definitely not designed by people who would eer live there.

Re: Co-living in London: Friendship, fines and frustration

#97

Post by isostatic »

dragonwriter wrote: post #92
mavdi wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That statistic in skewed because most of the murders happen in the favelas within drug gangs. City areas are ripe with petty crime but murder is perhaps as widely seen as London. Plus... it's not infested with security cameras.

> That statistic in skewed because most of the murders happen in the favelas within drug gangs But that (with “favela” replaced with he appropriate local term for underclass neighborhoods) is true pretty much every city everywhere. > City areas are ripe with petty crime but murder is perhaps as widely seen as London. Yes, but “if you exclude our underclass neighborhoods, our murder rate is the same as City X includin…

Some cities are dangerous in the posh neighbourhoods -- I wouldn't want to live in Johannesburg, where things like this [1] happen

Not something that happens in London, or New York, or St Louis or even Rio and Sao Paulo.

[1] http://www.eutimes.net/2012/07/south-african-family-dies-in-...

Re: Co-living in London: Friendship, fines and frustration

#98

Post by nelsonic »

vrbelli wrote: post #96
nelsonic wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

@vrbelli that's super insightful/useful! A sense of " shared purpose " is really difficult to create and impossible to "impose" (or worse "buy"!) I got the feeling (just from visiting "The Collective") that none of the people who designed/built the place had any intention of living there themselves ... It looked both "glossy" and "sterile" at the same time ! Do you think it would be better if there were fewer people…

It's quite an interesting question. I agree it's impossible to impose, maybe even to create. On university campus and in companies it's a natural occurence. You can have good or bad company culture but there will definitely be a company culture - which seems to be the problem at places like this. There simply isn't a culture. The size is definitely part of the problem, 500 is way too many. On the other hand I also kn…

There's nothing "pessimistic" about thinking that a "shared purpose" is required. (I couldn't agree more!)

There's a reason Simon Sinek's "Start with Why" (clearly define the purpose of your organisation before the product) is the 3rd most popular Ted Talk (of all time ...) https://www.ted.com/playlists/171/the_most_popular_talks_of_...

If the purpose is clearly defined, it should be obvious to everyone without any "marketing" required.

Are you lucky enough to work for an organisation that has a clear purpose? (I ask because v. few people do ...)

Re: Co-living in London: Friendship, fines and frustration

#99

Post by antihero »

bitL wrote: post #82
antihero wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the sensible option there would be to move which outskirt you work nearest? If she was going from outskirt to outskirt, why not like, go and live on the outskirt she was working in? Luckily there's a lot of tech work is in or close to the East (Shoreditch, City), so I can live in the South East. If I had to commute to west, I'd probably look to move to the outskirts on the west.

Unless you have a mortgage in one of those opposite outskirts and can't afford to switch...

Rent it out then?

Re: Co-living in London: Friendship, fines and frustration

#100

Post by dx034 »

csomar wrote: post #37
mayniac wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In London, living on your own after university is basically impossible (unless you live very far out). Disagree, since I'm doing it right now 3 years after uni. I'm not paid amazingly, below average salary for London but above average for the rest of the UK. However half my paycheck goes on rent. My commute is about 45 minutes by tube or 20 minutes by motorbike so it's not too far out. The trick is to find an area…

> However half my paycheck goes on rent. My commute is about 45 minutes by tube or 20 minutes by motorbike so it's not too far out. I don't know how you manages your finances but for me anything above 25% of your income going for rent is absurd . And you are not making it up in distance, either. 45 minutes by tube is a lots of time. (I assume motorbike is not a favorable option given London weather).

25% for rent in London means you'll have a lot of money to spend. If you spend 25% of your salary of $2000 on rent on the countryside you'll live off $1500. If in the city you can make $5000 but spend 50%, you'll still have more, even after higher other costs in the city. Sounds like an extreme example but in the UK, London vs. countryside further North has those differences.
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