Be Good • Hacker News Board

Re: Be Good

#91

Post by jmzachary » Mon, Apr 21, 2008, 2:48 AM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #87

jimbokun wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recommendations for good Drucker books, particularly those with appeal for the Startup and/or Hacker mentality?

Start with "The Essential Drucker" - it's a collection of chapters from all his books, and then you can pick out what seems most interesting from that. I'm currently reading "The Post-capitalistic society", which is fascinating, and I recall really enjoying "Innovation and Entrepreneurship" as well. I don't remember where the bit about profits came from - I think it was in The Essential Drucker. (To be honest, all th…

"The Essential Drucker" has the best excerpts form "Innovation and Entrepreneurship" in a tidy 3-4 chapters. It's highly recommended if you like reading "The Art of the Start" and those types of books.

Re: Be Good

#92

Post by mhb » Mon, Apr 21, 2008, 2:49 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #57

mhb wrote: post #19

I have no idea how Digi-Key is interacting with Octopart, but I have been buying parts from them for a long time and have nothing but good things to say about them. I like the company so much that I called to see if they were public so that I could buy stock; they're not. Although Octopart and its investors may be frustrated, it does Digi-Key a disservice to characterize it as "evil", not "good" or a company that isn…

It seems to me there is more to being good than having good customer service, which is the only evidence you mention here.

Would you consider Octopart evil if they deny my request for their code/data so I that I can duplicate their site in order to provide an improved customer/vendor experience?

Re: Be Good

#93

Post by mhb » Mon, Apr 21, 2008, 3:00 AM UTC

andres wrote: post #36

mhb wrote: post #19

I have no idea how Digi-Key is interacting with Octopart, but I have been buying parts from them for a long time and have nothing but good things to say about them. I like the company so much that I called to see if they were public so that I could buy stock; they're not. Although Octopart and its investors may be frustrated, it does Digi-Key a disservice to characterize it as "evil", not "good" or a company that isn…

Personally, we don't view them as evil (or ourselves as good, for that matter). We have had good experiences ordering from Digi-Key as well. They have a lot of parts in stock and they ship things right away so we don't have any qualms with their service. I think that what frustrates Paul is that Digi-Key is actively trying to block innovation in part search because they don't want price competition. Part search today…

Part search today is like travel search in 1995. I used to go straight to American Airlines to buy tickets and that was fine but how much nicer is it to buy tickets online now? I even travel more because it is easier to find things.

It is definitely nicer to buy tickets, but the race to the bottom in pricing has made the flying experience itself (not just the airport) a misery. There are predominately two options - be miserable with everyone for whom price trumps all (see also Walmart) or spend much, much more for a decent experience. There is no choice of spending 20% more to have a 20% better experience.

So while I value the ease of search and the low prices it precipitates, I am concerned that price competition will force a decline (or a polarization) in customer service. And maybe it is unavoidable.

Re: Be Good

#94

Post by wensing » Mon, Apr 21, 2008, 3:17 AM UTC

andres wrote: post #36

mhb wrote: post #19

I have no idea how Digi-Key is interacting with Octopart, but I have been buying parts from them for a long time and have nothing but good things to say about them. I like the company so much that I called to see if they were public so that I could buy stock; they're not. Although Octopart and its investors may be frustrated, it does Digi-Key a disservice to characterize it as "evil", not "good" or a company that isn…

Personally, we don't view them as evil (or ourselves as good, for that matter). We have had good experiences ordering from Digi-Key as well. They have a lot of parts in stock and they ship things right away so we don't have any qualms with their service. I think that what frustrates Paul is that Digi-Key is actively trying to block innovation in part search because they don't want price competition. Part search today…

Digi-Key is certainly not the only ones in this space that doesn't want price comparisons. What about McMaster-Carr? Not a chance in the world they are going to open up their pricing and availability to an Octopart site. Why? Well, I can't speak for them (although I worked there for 2.5 years), but I would guess it's because they want to maintain control. I don't think that necessarily makes them evil, however, because control can mean controlling the customer experience for the better. In other words, perhaps someone could legitimately believe that Octopart is an inferior (non-innovative) approach to part search, and that allowing your products to be searchable via Octopart would confuse and hurt, rather than help, your customers.

Your comparison to travel is an interesting one, because despite Travelocity/Orbitz/Kayak/etc. some airlines (Southwest) can still only be searched via their site. Ironically (despite the recent fiasco) I would consider Southwest to be a very innovative, pleasurable-to-fly airline.

Re: Be Good

#95

Post by guyk » Mon, Apr 21, 2008, 3:20 AM UTC

Oh man does this ring some bells for me.

I started bugmenot.com years ago to help people. And then I started retailmenot.com with much the same end in mind.

Because people dug bugmenot I got the critical mass I needed for retailmenot to work. Then it turns out you can make money off online shopping stuff.

Fast forward to now, we've got 5 staff still building cool stuff (that helps people), having fun and making money.

And curiously enough the business is called StatelessSystems.com

:)

Re: Be Good

#96

Post by wensing » Mon, Apr 21, 2008, 3:25 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #57

mhb wrote: post #19

I have no idea how Digi-Key is interacting with Octopart, but I have been buying parts from them for a long time and have nothing but good things to say about them. I like the company so much that I called to see if they were public so that I could buy stock; they're not. Although Octopart and its investors may be frustrated, it does Digi-Key a disservice to characterize it as "evil", not "good" or a company that isn…

It seems to me there is more to being good than having good customer service, which is the only evidence you mention here.

Really? I'm not so sure.

Yes, some companies are running about doing things that are obviously good (feeding the hungry, clothing the poor), but for everyone else, I think 'good customer service' is the rarest and best compliment, because it implies a positive relationship.

Re: Be Good

#97

Post by r7000 » Mon, Apr 21, 2008, 3:30 AM UTC

The last thing I ever thought to see in a PG essay was a P. O'Brian reference! That was a nice surprise.

Re: Be Good

#98

Post by yters » Mon, Apr 21, 2008, 3:49 AM UTC

andreyf wrote: post #23

steveblgh wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think even YouTube/FaceBook/Flickr started along those lines. Hell, even Jimmy Wales was running a porn website ring before focusing on Wikipedia full time.

Since when is porn evil?

Same way as drugs and alcohol are evil. They create addictions and harm the users. Sure, everything can be used in moderation, but are moderate users of these things the exception or the rule?

Re: Be Good

#99

Post by yters » Mon, Apr 21, 2008, 4:09 AM UTC

gruseom wrote: post #5

The business literature of previous generations often talked about "service to mankind" as an ingredient of success. This essay sheds some light on what they might have meant by that.

One issue, though, is that "good" seems to have a different definition for many of the really successful startups, i.e. being "robin hood." But, I am still not comfortable calling piracy a form of beneficial stealing. I do think such a thing exists in the realm of necessities for life, but free proprietary media is not a necessity. Such a business model is actually parasitic since a lot of capital is necessary to create high quality media. If you undermine the capital, you undermine the art.

So, the question in my mind is whether most of the do gooders are providing their own efforts for free or the efforts of others. Making money by giving away someone else's hard work and calling it good because it is free is distasteful.

But, I don't want to be too cynical. I do definitely agree that the fundamental purpose of business is to do good, i.e. create true wealth. Optimistically, if such an ideology can be spread effectively we could eliminate money, since computer technology gives us much more efficient ways to quantify transactions. This in turn would increase wealth significantly, since money is a big overhead.

Re: Be Good

#100

Post by kingkongrevenge » Mon, Apr 21, 2008, 4:18 AM UTC

> The markets seem to have figured out how to value potential dividends.

Over the last eight years a dividend focused investor kicked the ass of an appreciation focused investor. Those who picked dividend paying stocks in non USD denominations are even farther ahead.