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What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

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Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#91

Post by Nition »

BjoernKW wrote: post #85
alankay wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We understood Moore's Law, so it made sense in the early 70s to make a personal computer in 1973 that would have the power of much less expensive personal computers 10 or more years later. Why? Because the new SW and UI takes a lot of work to invent -- this allowed us to show Steve "the 80s" in 1979. (Worth pondering this way of going about things.) What was disappointing is that the market couldn't value personal co…

There were machines like the Commodore C64 - and later to some extent the Amiga as well - that more fully embraced and valued computing in that they booted into an environment which allowed you to create programs right away. With the C64 in particular there was no real distinction between the operating system and the programming language, the programming language actually WAS the operating system. The machine booted…

My memory on this is super vague because this was way back in the mists of time, but I think some old versions of DOS used to have a BASIC interpreter built in, where you could just start writing BASIC code at the DOS prompt.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#92

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

Nition wrote: post #91
BjoernKW wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were machines like the Commodore C64 - and later to some extent the Amiga as well - that more fully embraced and valued computing in that they booted into an environment which allowed you to create programs right away. With the C64 in particular there was no real distinction between the operating system and the programming language, the programming language actually WAS the operating system. The machine booted…

My memory on this is super vague because this was way back in the mists of time, but I think some old versions of DOS used to have a BASIC interpreter built in, where you could just start writing BASIC code at the DOS prompt.

There were IBM PCs with BASIC in ROM.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#93

Post by coldtea »

coldtea wrote: post #80
hiq wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a starting point, can you quote any evidence that a tablet is better than a paper book? Both for reading and for more general educational activities? I assume your family doesn't use their tablets with candycrush-like apps unlike some of my acquaintances. Which apps do they use to make it worth it? I tend to assume that the burden of the proof of value is on the new tool, otherwise we just keep changing and nothin…

> As a starting point, can you quote any evidence that a tablet is better than a paper book? Both for reading and for more general educational activities? Have we regressed to the point where the simplest statement requires third party ("scientific" references)? A table offers 100x the functionality of a paper book. Even just in reading mode, it can carry 1000s of books in it, one can take notes, highlight, search th…

I meant, "a tablet". A table offers different kinds of functionality...

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#94

Post by enitihas »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #87
greglindahl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. As a highly educated person, I had no idea I was choosing inferior tools! Thanks for letting me know. I gave all my nieces and nephews tablets, and they all used them, I hope I didn’t destroy their lives. Seriously, I have a hard time believing you can quote any evidence that a paper book is much better than a tablet for everyone. Which appears to be your assertion, although it’s hard to tell.

Wow, this subthread is getting out of hand... My assertion is in context of education . If you're going to use a tablet as an electronic version of paper books, then paper books are better, because: - they're much faster to skim through and search through - print has better resolution than screen - you can actually make notes on them - I mean free-form notes, made in an efficient way - you can pull out multiple books…

How on earth are paper books faster to search through?

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#95

Post by mbroncano »

Nition wrote: post #91
BjoernKW wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There were machines like the Commodore C64 - and later to some extent the Amiga as well - that more fully embraced and valued computing in that they booted into an environment which allowed you to create programs right away. With the C64 in particular there was no real distinction between the operating system and the programming language, the programming language actually WAS the operating system. The machine booted…

My memory on this is super vague because this was way back in the mists of time, but I think some old versions of DOS used to have a BASIC interpreter built in, where you could just start writing BASIC code at the DOS prompt.

QBasic was included in some of the later DOS versions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBasic

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#96

Post by scarface74 »

adamson wrote: post #30
peterkelly wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This guy badgered me about how Microsoft was going to completely change the world with this tablet PC software and eliminate all notebook computers, and Apple ought to license his Microsoft software. But he was doing the device all wrong. It had a stylus. As soon as your have a stylus, you’re dead. This dinner was like the tenth time he talked to me about it, and I was so sick of it that I came home and said, “Fuck…

Who really won though? Does anyone buy tablets anymore? I feel like I haven't seen one since 2015.

Apple publishes how many iPads they sell every quarter.

This is another example of the old internet trope "Do people still watch Tv? I haven't had a TV in 10 years".

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#97

Post by scarface74 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #35
hyperpallium wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fitting in a pocket is a great advantage for a portable device, to everyone. The market seems to be saying: if I need something that I have to lug around, I might as well have a keyboard. i.e. a laptop. Another effect is people are doing everything they can on a phone, because of the convenience. This leads to slightly larger phones every year, and now a 5.5" phone is no longer considered a "phablet", and apple is ru…

iOS and Android turn tablets into oversized phones, so no surprise they lose against phones - they have the same (or usually worse, at a given price point) capabilities while being larger, thus less convenient to carry and more fragile. These days I'm not using much Windows for desktop (HN took over the time I had for games), but I do sincerely hope this OS will live on for at least couple more years, because Microso…

I have both a recent iPad and a Dell 2-1. For "consumption" I find my iPad far more usable. The 4/3 screen is preferable to the 16:9 screen on my laptop and of course it's a lot lighter. The battery life of my iPad is amazing.

For the occasional typing, I use my same mini Bluetooth keyboard for my computer and my iPad.

I had an original iPad bought in mid 2011 but it didn't get much use - it was no more than a "big iPhone".

But a lot changed since then.

- Cellular connectivity is a lot cheaper. I pay $20 a month for unlimited data with T-Mobile.

- I got rid of cable and use Netflix/Hulu/DirecTv and Plex.

- PluralSight is available and I use that for watching technical videos.

- The screen resolution is a lot better for ebooks. - better productivity software from Apple, Microsoft and Google.

- iOS has made iPad specific improvements - split screen, picture in picture, and drag and drop.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#98

Post by Joeri »

BjoernKW wrote: post #85
alankay wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We understood Moore's Law, so it made sense in the early 70s to make a personal computer in 1973 that would have the power of much less expensive personal computers 10 or more years later. Why? Because the new SW and UI takes a lot of work to invent -- this allowed us to show Steve "the 80s" in 1979. (Worth pondering this way of going about things.) What was disappointing is that the market couldn't value personal co…

There were machines like the Commodore C64 - and later to some extent the Amiga as well - that more fully embraced and valued computing in that they booted into an environment which allowed you to create programs right away. With the C64 in particular there was no real distinction between the operating system and the programming language, the programming language actually WAS the operating system. The machine booted…

Arguably modern windows has more programming abilities preinstalled with the OS: batch scripting, powershell, javascript (command line and browser), and C# (csc.exe compiler).

The difference is one of visibility and discoverability. The 70's and 80's were the time when user equated to programmer, mostly by technical necessity. The separation between those two concepts came later, and it's evidenced by the way modern windows hides the programming languages it bundles.

Re: What did Alan Kay and Steve Jobs talk about at the 2007 iPhone keynote?

#99

Post by eitland »

eecc wrote: post #88
eitland wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disks exist in two states: - broken - about to break Even poor quality books are mostly readable after decades. I don't know for certain a single example of any of my disks that have survived since 1990ies although I could hope.

Also books exist in few states, of which only one is useful: well preserved, wet, burnt, torn apart. That’s how entropy works folks! One advantage of books is that the information density is lower so the loss of one specimen isn’t that significant, unless it’s unique

This isn't entirely correct.

A book can be usable even if it has a few loose pages. Also you can fix it.

Disks break more often and when they break you are lucky if you get anything out of them without paying (or being) a specialist.

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