China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains • Hacker News Board

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#91

Post by jandrese » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 6:04 PM UTC

wehadfun wrote: post #74

RubenSandwich wrote: post #4

If anyone wants to see some of the negative effects of a persistent 'social score' that affects real life I recommend this Black Mirror episode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive .

Yea that episode the "credit" was objective based on random people's opinions. According to the article, they claim that you have to not pay fines, or smoke on a train to ruin your social credit.

Or piss off some random party official, or have non-mainstream political opinions, etc...

Once a system like this is in place it will be abused. It's practically designed to be abused. Where is the accountability?

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#92

Post by bhouston » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 6:04 PM UTC

awakeasleep wrote: post #7

To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'

Is this a Black Mirror episode?

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#93

Post by rcao » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 6:04 PM UTC

zanny wrote: post #28

walterbell wrote: post #20

From http://www.collective-evolution.com/2017/10/26/black-mirror-... "You won’t be eligible for … positions in public office … social security and welfare … senior level positions in the food and drug sector … sleep in a bed in overnight trains … higher-starred hotels and restaurants … Your children … won’t be allowed to attend more expensive private schools … We have made extreme advancements in health care because…

The CCP is not interested in progress, its interested in maintaining permanent, absolute power at any cost.

Actually for CCP, a major source of legitimacy comes from making economical progress all the time.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#94

Post by behindmyscreen » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 6:05 PM UTC

awakeasleep wrote: post #7

To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'

Right. To me, the idea is bad in general, however, if they are going to be doing it, at least be fair and allow for someone to rebuild their social credit just like financial credit.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#95

Post by rm_-rf_slash » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 6:05 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #80

KerrickStaley wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really true. Progress and upward economic development increase the faith of the public and the Communist Party rank-and-file in the Communist Party leadership. The Communist Party leadership has a strong incentive to promote growth.

> the Communist Party leadership has a strong incentive to promote growth But Xi Jinping does not.

How so? Isn’t unprecedented growth and prosperity the bedrock which supports the Communist Party? Wouldn’t continued growth then be an affirmation of Xi’s policies? What’s in it for him if the economy stagnates or recesses?

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#96

Post by justicezyx » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 6:05 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #80

KerrickStaley wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really true. Progress and upward economic development increase the faith of the public and the Communist Party rank-and-file in the Communist Party leadership. The Communist Party leadership has a strong incentive to promote growth.

> the Communist Party leadership has a strong incentive to promote growth But Xi Jinping does not.

He does want growth.

Otherwise he wont have power... I mean, the dictator is not stupid.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#97

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

awakeasleep wrote: post #7

To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'

[deleted]

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#98

Post by ams6110 » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

jrs95 wrote: post #90

awakeasleep wrote: post #7

To me the principle of “once untrustworthy, always restricted” sounds like the beginning of a new caste system. Everyone's children are going to make mistakes. The wealthy are going to be able to cover up their children's mistakes, the poor are going to be put on 'the list' and become 'restricted.' The restrictions will grow, and eventually you'll have a new group of 'untouchables'

This isn't a permanent thing, it's 'up to one year'. Not much different than what we have in Ohio...any drug charge and your driver's license is suspended for a minimum of 6 months. It's ridiculous, yes, but it's hardly the level of totalitarianism you're describing.

Yeah but losing your driver's license for a DUI or drug charge is a specific defined consequence for a specific behavior. It's not something that happens because you have crossed a line on some nebulous "social credit" scale.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#99

Post by ghrifter » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

RubenSandwich wrote: post #4

If anyone wants to see some of the negative effects of a persistent 'social score' that affects real life I recommend this Black Mirror episode: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosedive .

Sourcing a fictional tale? Lol. Why not use a study of real hard evidence instead of some fantasy, even if the "plot" seems plausible.

Re: China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains

#100

Post by darawk » Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #80

KerrickStaley wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really true. Progress and upward economic development increase the faith of the public and the Communist Party rank-and-file in the Communist Party leadership. The Communist Party leadership has a strong incentive to promote growth.

> the Communist Party leadership has a strong incentive to promote growth But Xi Jinping does not.

Yes he does. Growth makes people wealthier, which makes them happy with the government. If China's growth stops, you better believe there will be serious civil unrest.