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Microsoft again forced upgrades on Win10 PCs specifically set to block updates

computerworld.com

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Re: Microsoft again forced upgrades on Win10 PCs specifically set to block updates

#91

Post by duncan_bayne »

executesorder66 wrote: post #60
yolobey wrote: post #49

Oh boy, this happened to me despite using the enterprise edition. The system forced an upgrade, despite me doing everything to stop it, and every time the upgrade crashed and I had to roll back to the previous version. Every day. I spent a month like this, on an always-on system, trying to shut down the upgrade downloader from the task bar whenever I can after failing to stop it from settings, group policy, horsing a…

Laughs in Linux.

... but your laughs are logged in binary format by systemd, so no-one can share your joy ;)

FreeBSD forever :)

Re: Microsoft again forced upgrades on Win10 PCs specifically set to block updates

#92

Post by Karunamon »

chopin wrote: post #82
apexalpha wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For every person running a script there are thousands now updating their computers who would've simply clicked 'no' on previous versions. Win10 is inherently more secure because of these forced updates. Think about WannaCry... it only worked _because_ people (and organisations) don't update. Now I understand that some people apparently need a system that will never update, but I agree with the policy of simply forcin…

For security fixes, that is. Not for adware, crapware or phone home capabilities (or resetting your preferences) bundled on top. Microsoft ruined the benefits of auto-updates for which it should be criticized much more. I believe Microsoft wants two things: A more homogeneous installation base and the beloved walled garden with phone home capabilities. Both are directly adverse to users interests. Therefore people do…

I think it’s a bit more mundane than that. Most people aren't putting that much thought into their computers after all.

I think it's that Microsoft still hasn’t figured out how to do updates without requiring a reboot. Nobody wants to lose their working state or wait minutes to begin working to what appears at first glance to be pointless computer housekeeping.

Re: Microsoft again forced upgrades on Win10 PCs specifically set to block updates

#93

Post by colejohnson66 »

executesorder66 wrote: post #11

I really don't understand people who think microsoft has changed. They still do shady shit all the time.

Because while Microsoft is one huge entity, it isn’t run the same in every department. While one department might be hugely user friendly, another won’t.

Re: Microsoft again forced upgrades on Win10 PCs specifically set to block updates

#94

Post by sevensor »

As an HN reader, I believe I am qualified to comment on the strategic direction of a major multi-billion-dollar software company. By pushing to make Windows as idiot-proof as possible, Microsoft is zagging when it should zig. They've basically lost the mass market. The e-mail checking machine in the kitchen has been replaced by a tablet, and it doesn't run Windows. Their only hope is to position Windows as the OS for people who want to get serious work done, playing on their historical strength as the platform for office computers. To that end, they have to stop taking the people who use Windows all day long at work for granted, because it's never been easier to find an alternative, and if they lose the enterprise, Windows is over.

And it's stuff like this I'm thinking of when I say "taking for granted." Telemetry. User-hostile update policies. Minecraft in the start menu. Pushing a Microsoft account for desktop login. These things are not office-user friendly, they do not say, "we take your need to do work on this computer seriously."

Re: Microsoft again forced upgrades on Win10 PCs specifically set to block updates

#95

Post by yolobey »

lancefisher wrote: post #65
yolobey wrote: post #49

Oh boy, this happened to me despite using the enterprise edition. The system forced an upgrade, despite me doing everything to stop it, and every time the upgrade crashed and I had to roll back to the previous version. Every day. I spent a month like this, on an always-on system, trying to shut down the upgrade downloader from the task bar whenever I can after failing to stop it from settings, group policy, horsing a…

Have you tried settting your internet connection to metered? https://www.howtogeek.com/226722/how-when-and-why-to-set-a-c...

I read about that method too, but unfortunately doesn't work if you're connected via ethernet.

Re: Microsoft again forced upgrades on Win10 PCs specifically set to block updates

#96

Post by jeroen »

Ironically, I just took a break from work to make a cup of coffee. On returning, I find that my (virtual) pc is "working on updates".

It feels like the primary focus of Windows is no longer to do what the user wants, but to do what Microsoft wants.

Re: Microsoft again forced upgrades on Win10 PCs specifically set to block updates

#97

Post by yolobey »

spystath wrote: post #88
yolobey wrote: post #49

Oh boy, this happened to me despite using the enterprise edition. The system forced an upgrade, despite me doing everything to stop it, and every time the upgrade crashed and I had to roll back to the previous version. Every day. I spent a month like this, on an always-on system, trying to shut down the upgrade downloader from the task bar whenever I can after failing to stop it from settings, group policy, horsing a…

I'm mostly a Linux user but I use Windows at work. There is also an additional Windows computer in my house. Although I can't say I dislike Windows there is a singular issue with it that really grinds my gears. The OS assumes way too much about what I want to do. I get it that the defaults are there for the inexperienced or casual users but there really needs to be a way to tell the OS "Hands off! I know what I'm doi…

Honestly I could tolerate the defaults being heavy-handed towards updates, but I was really miffed to find out I literally didn't even have an option to not update, even when it was a system-wrecking one.

Re: Microsoft again forced upgrades on Win10 PCs specifically set to block updates

#98

Post by executesorder66 »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #93
executesorder66 wrote: post #11

I really don't understand people who think microsoft has changed. They still do shady shit all the time.

Because while Microsoft is one huge entity, it isn’t run the same in every department. While one department might be hugely user friendly, another won’t.

Which microsoft departments would you consider user friendly, and why?

Re: Microsoft again forced upgrades on Win10 PCs specifically set to block updates

#99

Post by dijit »

fzzzy wrote: post #90
dijit wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but you must understand that I'm going on the word of 500~ developers. Maybe they selection bias themselves for Windows affinity but a lot have development experience with Linux too and smirk at things like epoll with absolute derision. I'm not a developer myself but seeing how they work on Windows is definitely impressive.

They smirk at epoll but are happy with IOCP? That seems... unlikely to me.

I don't know, like I said, I'm not a developer myself, however I thought epoll was universally criticised for being poor.

I researched a little after I was told (while pushing linux) that things like epoll were why they would never use it.

I did manage to convince them to write their storage backend on FreeBSD because that uses kqueues and has ZFS.

https://idea.popcount.org/2017-02-20-epoll-is-fundamentally-...

Re: Microsoft again forced upgrades on Win10 PCs specifically set to block updates

#100

Post by smittywerben »

apexalpha wrote: post #81
smittywerben wrote: post #69

There is an overwhelming amount of "but the users NEED to update" in the Windows 10 community. Sorry but now users are running random scripts they find on the internet. This is worse than just "hacking the registry" or adding some group policy to disable auto-updates. I need security and no random shutdowns. I switched to linux about a year ago. Lots of complaints, yes, but no auto-updates. Example scripts (haven't u…

For every person running a script there are thousands now updating their computers who would've simply clicked 'no' on previous versions. Win10 is inherently more secure because of these forced updates. Think about WannaCry... it only worked _because_ people (and organisations) don't update. Now I understand that some people apparently need a system that will never update, but I agree with the policy of simply forcin…

And the missionaries come knocking...

1) "some people apparently need a system that will never update"... Didn't Microsoft literally ask to disable updates during install on every other editions? Whoops. Your statistics are really bad.

2) I see that WannaCry caused $130k in cryptocurrency damages. It's ironic because Bitcoin miners are the very users of these scripts.

3) Conversely, how much has this update policy lost in productivity? (the crypto miners lose twice I guess). It's insignificant to Microsoft's Telemetry and advertising profits. And hell, does Microsoft even need a support team anymore when you can provide it?

How much must I pay Microsoft to disable auto-updates? It's increasing every year. No I'm not going to run some rogue script. No I don't need any snake oil "idiot insurance". Yes this matters to a broke-ass business. No I can't afford enterprise support. Yeah I get it, just enable "metered connection" and ur gucci bro you don't need those updates.

I'm on Linux now, thanks for your concerns.

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