Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't get the arbitrage takeaway? I thought that income tax was only a part of the puzzle. Maybe half. The other taxes you pay aren't affected by what you put in retirement accounts.
Tax arbitrage means using the difference in tax rates to make extra money. If the tax rate when you contribute to a tax-deferred investment account is higher than the tax rate when you pull the money out, voila, you've profited from tax arbitrage. So I am not sure why you are thinking of income vs. other taxes. The authors are simply saying, if you are a high earner in a top federal tax bracket, it really pays to put…
Your real tax rate: 40%
91–100 of 170 posts
Re: Your real tax rate: 40%
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not like the entire tax goes into a black hole It's arguable that we'd be better off were that so... part of the tax burden is all the people employed by those taxes who don't actually contribute anything to society on net (that is, whose jobs wouldn't be done at all on the free market)... in this way, taxes can have something like double their cost in harm, potentially.
Airlines wouldn't exist in the "free market". Are you arguing that air travel has no net value?
Re: Your real tax rate: 40%
#93The main issue is that we're still taxing income, instead of taxing consumption. We (no matter the country) could save billions in administrative costs simply by moving all tax to point of sale style VATs. (As a sidenote this does not mean that something like the FairTax proposal is a good example of this concept.)
I'm no fan of excessive taxing, but if you shifted the source of all current tax revenue to consumption based transactions, this would cripple the poor and middle class. For much of the lower/middle class, a significant, sometimes 100% of their income goes to consumption. For the wealthy, consumption as percent of income can be very small.
The current system is regressive in practice, though not in theory. If this wasn't the case, Buffet wouldn't be paying 17%.
Spending 100%+ of your income on consumption can be the norm for lower income earners, it is true. That does not extend however into 100%+ of income spent on consumption that is required for basic sustainability, especially in rich countries such as in North America or Europe.
There is no incentive under the current system for any income bracket to spend within their own means, regardless of what those means may be. The high levels of unsustainable personal debt illustrate this perfectly.
This results in overspending on "luxury" (i.e. not "required") goods - even by the "poor". There are few incentives that encourage the poor to establish wealth through savings. There is also no incentive in the system to have individuals increase their income to match their spending, although that's admittedly a much harder accomplishment.
With an income tax system that isn't perfectly flat, the problems you highlight are simply hidden, if not encouraged. With a flat based taxed, they are not, but it is regressive.
With a flat consumption based tax with a level of social control through either personal spending exemptions or through item based exemptions (baby food, for example) we could do a better job of managing the regressive nature of tax systems in general than we do right now.
In addition, we expose basic economics to those who have difficulty understanding the concept by providing strong incentives to build wealth and consume less, regardless of income bracket. This is something we should do.
Re: Your real tax rate: 40%
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
wow, talk about administrative overhead) would actually effectively lower everyones tax burden by several percentage points. ??? Where is the savings? The IRS is a tiny fraction of US government spending. Edit: IRS $12.15 billion in 2010, total federal expenditures $3.552 trillion . So it's 1/3 of 1% of the federal budget.
You could always try the military... you've got one hell of an expensive lean, mean fighting machine there. I'm pretty sure it would still be as good for defence at a fraction of the cost.
And your military-affairs expertise is derived from ... ?
Re: Your real tax rate: 40%
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Airlines wouldn't exist in the "free market". Are you arguing that air travel has no net value?
Citation needed, Southwest is quite profitable, can you explain what they are getting in subsidies (I just may be unfamiliar with your argument).
Re: Your real tax rate: 40%
#96All in all, if I buy something for $100, how much is the tax collected by the government (in addition to what is taken from my income leaving me this $100 to spend)? Is all of that taken into account in this report?
Re: Your real tax rate: 40%
#97As a person who wants to pay as little tax as possible (until of course, they start spending the tax money in ways that I see fit, which don't include blowing things up), I have always been against the concept of a single national sales tax, or a flat tax. However, more and more I am realizing that the benefits of axing most of the IRS (wow, talk about administrative overhead) would actually effectively lower everyon…
wow, talk about administrative overhead) would actually effectively lower everyones tax burden by several percentage points. ??? Where is the savings? The IRS is a tiny fraction of US government spending. Edit: IRS $12.15 billion in 2010, total federal expenditures $3.552 trillion . So it's 1/3 of 1% of the federal budget.
Make it automatic and flat, and we ALL get to go back to work. Much larger savings that the total IRS budget.
Re: Your real tax rate: 40%
#98As a person who wants to pay as little tax as possible (until of course, they start spending the tax money in ways that I see fit, which don't include blowing things up), I have always been against the concept of a single national sales tax, or a flat tax. However, more and more I am realizing that the benefits of axing most of the IRS (wow, talk about administrative overhead) would actually effectively lower everyon…
I am a fan, but even if you are not, the analysis of the situation in the papers at fairtax.org is quite robust and worth reading.
Re: Your real tax rate: 40%
#99Very cool, it seems the researchers took into account all sorts of things like state sales tax, state income tax, corporate tax, welfare / handout type programs, and spending + savings habits. From what I can tell the key inflection points in the graph come from four issues. 1.) How much can one contribute to retirement accounts to avoid paying income tax that year? 2.) Where are the key discontinuous cutoff points i…
Re: Your real tax rate: 40%
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
Airlines wouldn't exist in the "free market". Are you arguing that air travel has no net value?
Citation needed, Southwest is quite profitable, can you explain what they are getting in subsidies (I just may be unfamiliar with your argument).