In the North, it seems the interstates and highways tend to get cracks across the entire road at relatively even intervals. I suspect they form where they lay down the rebar supports/holders. It makes sense to me that cracks/"potholes" would form there as it seems that at that point compression of some sort would occur from the weight of vehicles causing the asphalt/road to crumble. While more work to initially build…
I've never seen rebar on asphalt highways. Do they top the concrete highways with asphalt where you are?
A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads
91–100 of 113 posts
Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads
#92I've always read that road damage was caused by heavy vehicles(semis) which stress fracture the roads, which in turn fill with water, freeze, expand, rinse and repeat. This article seems to imply it's caused by the road design itself, though. Wonder which is true (or both)?
Roads are designed, manufactured, used, and maintained. You can impact road surface wear by tweaking any of these variables. They all affected the surface, there is no single cause.
Back 35 or 40 years ago, Phillips petroleum was promoting a paving material that supposedly solved this problem. Where is it?
There may be single causes, we just need them all to marry single solutions.
Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually in this case the answer is fairly simple: it's corruption. Most people living in Ontario or Quebec know that the construction industry there is dominated by the mob. You gotta be real careful not to step over the wrong people's feet, especially if you're going after public contracts. So, suffice to say, there is little real competition because most new competitors get literally threatened for their lives if…
I don’t know about the rest of Ontario, but this is 100% not true for the Toronto area. I used to be in the industry and I saw something shady only once and it was very, very minor. My brother is also a higher up at Ellis Don and he complains about concrete trucks getting stuck in traffic, not mob grift.
Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
> South of south America, more or less equivalent to Florida Are you calling North America "America", and then go on and call Florida "south America", as if there isn't such a place in the world as South America? I do not approve of this North America-centric view of the world at all.
America refers to The United States of America. Same as we don't refer to Mexico all the time as Estados Unidos Mexicanos. I don't approve of getting upset over turns of phrase online. Principle of charity.
Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads
#95Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads
#96This strikes me as a classic separation of buyer interests from vendor interests leading to misaligned incentives. The contractors have no incentive to update their equipment. In fact if this is scientifically proven to be a major solution they should want to avoid this. If the province could incentivize the vendor to pay them more for every year there is no pothole and punish them for every pothole they would totall…
I would argue that lack of adoption is likely a discovery and design problem rather than an economic one. In a free market other people can choose to enter into the contracting business. If I have a leg up on my competition (paving better roads for the same cost) I will eventually out compete people who fail to adapt to the new method. This doesn't happen immediately, but you can't fool everyone forever if there trul…
Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads
#97Reminds me of this section[2] from "How Engineers Create the World" by Bill Hammack - an interesting but perhaps scattered read. Well, a pothole is not just a technological thing, it's also a political entity. Usually we think of European nations as steeped in governmental regulation, and the United States as a free market, but actually the opposite occurs in building roads. In the United States the government sets s…
Contractors are pre-approved for their ability to execute.
Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads
#98Reminds me of this section[2] from "How Engineers Create the World" by Bill Hammack - an interesting but perhaps scattered read. Well, a pothole is not just a technological thing, it's also a political entity. Usually we think of European nations as steeped in governmental regulation, and the United States as a free market, but actually the opposite occurs in building roads. In the United States the government sets s…
Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Are you calling North America "America", and then go on and call Florida "south America", as if there isn't such a place in the world as South America? Depending on the geography class you took, and where, there might not be a "South America". Some countries just call the whole continent America: Most North Americans are taught that there are 7 continents: Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Antarctica, Eur…
A Eurocentric viewpoint to combine South and North America. Its very obviously two continents from a geographical and cultural point of view.
Culturally? Really? What's so different culturally between Colombia, Argentina, Paraguay, Chile, and say, Panama, Nicaragua, Guatemala Costa Rica to warrant each set belonging to another continent?
Re: A transportation engineer has a simple solution to potholes: pave better roads
#100I've always read that road damage was caused by heavy vehicles(semis) which stress fracture the roads, which in turn fill with water, freeze, expand, rinse and repeat. This article seems to imply it's caused by the road design itself, though. Wonder which is true (or both)?
In my experience, both.
Set aside for one moment this new roller, the reality is that road paving is not exact science, and - even if it was - it is largely executed badly.
Paving (and before paving the underneath layers) are more like "cooking" than everything else.
It is not like you have the right recipe, good ingredients and follow "instructions" accurately you can replicate some dishes.
Usually (of course it greatly depends in local uses and materials available) the first mistake is under-calculating the thickness and consistence of the bottom layers (gravel, sand, quarried rubble, sometimes mixed with cement or lime).
The second one (again usually, not always) is inadequate protection from running water (be it coming from rain or from the soil).
Then it comes the exact composition of the asphalt, the (right or wrong) type and quantity of bitumen, the temperature at which it is mixed, transported and layered, the amount of compacting, etc., etc.
In the last 20 years or so some great betterings have come from the use of reinforcing layers, both in the underpavement (woven or non-woven geotextiles) and in the asphalt itself (geogrids, usually plastic).
Whilst geogrids in asphalt are rather costly (both as material and additional work to lay them), high strength geotextiles are relatively cheap and it is surprising how - still today - they are not widely and universally used.
Both however are only good for highways and roads outside the city, as the benefit of these textiles is to spread as much as possible any dynamic action provoked by heavy traffic and loads onto the widest possible surface, but in urban contexts the surface (and up to 1-1.5 m depth) is "ruined" by every kind of duct, pipe, cable and other services, often re-cut (over and over) for maintenance/repair/replacement.