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Improving the way kids are taught to read

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Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#91

Post by r00fus »

tootie wrote: post #73
dubya wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is actually done is that teachers have children do tons of worksheets focusing on small aspects of reading. This allows teachers to check the boxes showing that they've covered the relevant standards, because this is what's supposedly covered on standardized tests. The standards are difficult to turn into lesson plans (even if that was a good idea), so often they use the clip-art encrusted crap available on the…

My kids are in school doing common core and that's not what it's like at all. They do worksheets around learning specific small-bore topics, but otherwise do a ton of book reading and long-form writing assignments. Unless you have a cite, I don't think you're representing what the people in this article are talking about.

More anecdata: my younger two are bilingual and didn't know how to read more than really basic sight words before starting K (common core class). They are now highly proficient at reading (english), which (they are decent learners and have no challenges) I reason are due to two things: 1) An interest in reading which is fostered by the class atmosphere - they have "choice" time and some of that can be reading. 2) They have an expectation in class to spend a lot of time reading or being read-to.

I will admit we did read to them every night since they were babies, so that's probably also helpful. But kids usually love the bedtime story.

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#92

Post by antirez »

HorizonXP wrote: post #77
antirez wrote: post #28

I want to share the experience I had with my daughter Greta (now 5 yo). She learned to write and read independently. At 3 she was already able to write simple words (not memorized, you cold say "write "), and at this point at 5 she can fluently write. All this without spending more than, maybe a total of a few days once she were already capable of basic reading/writing. The question is, how she figured out how to wri…

antirez, I'm curious, did you decide to teach English instead of Italian, or in addition to it? I'm wondering how this book helps or hinders your children's progress in other languages. There is the obvious advantage that they share the same written alphabet.

My son learned English as a teenager, instead my daughter has an english mother tongue teachers at his school, mixed with regular teachers, so she have definitely a very good pronounce, but she is not able yet to talk, just knows certain words, a few sentences and so forth. I've the feeling that all the books we read she in Italian have only a marginal advantage on her english skills...

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#93

Post by logfromblammo »

arthurjj wrote: post #66
dgritsko wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've also anecdotally heard good things regarding "Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons" -- does anyone have direct experience with both that book and "Let's Read: A Linguistic Approach" (and if so, a recommendation for one over the other)?

I'm currently using "Teach your Child to read in 100 Easy Lessons." with my 3 year old. He hasn't had trouble with the reading, but a few of the exercises were too long for him. It uses the DISTAR method which seems to have the most empirical evidence supporting it. (The controversy over DISTAR appears to me to be that it's boring for the teacher)

I used it on two kids. They now both score on standardized tests as reading far in advance of their grade level. This leads to difficulties wherein much of the material available at their level of technical proficiency does not match with either their maturity levels or with their specific interests.

Neither of them actually finished all 100 lessons. At some point, they both preferred moving on to actual books rather than doing the remaining lessons. So a little boring for the student as well, apparently.

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#94

Post by dubya »

dragonwriter wrote: post #72
dubya wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is actually done is that teachers have children do tons of worksheets focusing on small aspects of reading. This allows teachers to check the boxes showing that they've covered the relevant standards, because this is what's supposedly covered on standardized tests. The standards are difficult to turn into lesson plans (even if that was a good idea), so often they use the clip-art encrusted crap available on the…

> The standards are difficult to turn into lesson plans That people can say that with a straight face indicated to me that we have a real problem in teacher education [0]. The standards you link may be different than what is addressed in lesson plans that have been handed down with only incremental modification for decades, but nothing about them seems to difficult to develop a year-long lesson plan that incorporates…

> That people can say that with a straight face indicated to me that we have a real problem in teacher education [0]. The standards you link may be different than what is addressed in lesson plans that have been handed down with only incremental modification for decades, but nothing about them seems to difficult to develop a year-long lesson plan that incorporates then.

The problem isn't translating a single standard into a single lesson or set of lessons, it's putting three sets of reading standards, a writing standard, a speaking & listening standard, and a language standard into a coherent, interesting curriculum. It's not impossible, but it's a lot to expect from, say, a small group of first grade teachers.

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#95

Post by irrational »

I have seven kids, and they are all voracious readers. One of the kids read all of the Harry Potter books when he was 8 years old. I honestly didn't think he could comprehend what he was reading (i.e., I thought the books would be beyond his reading comprehension level), but when we asked him questions about the books he always knew the answers.

What we learned works is:

1. Take them to the library a lot. Let them check out whatever they want. Let them check out as many books as they want (up to the limit allowed by the library - ours only allows 100 books per library card and we frequently run up against that limit).

2. Let them get their own library card as soon as the library will let them. When they are older let them ride their bikes to the library (obviously this depends on your location and situation) so they can check out things on their own.

3. Read to them from the time they are young, a lot.

4. Check out audio books from the library and let them go to bed listening to stories when they are too young to read. When they are older make sure they have a flashlight or two so they can read after lights out.

5. Greatly limit access to TV and game systems. We don't have cable or streaming subscriptions. We only use our TV for movies or TV shows on DVD from the library which they can watch on occasion when their chores and homework are done (unless it's a nice day outside then they have to be outdoors playing or reading in the hammock).

6. Fill the house with books. We have thousands of books across all age groups and topics. There are books everywhere in every room just in piles. The kids beds are covered in books.

7. Don't be a book snob. If they want to read comic books, let them read comic books. It doesn't matter what they are reading, as long as they are reading. Like any skill, the more you do it, the better you will get at it and the greater success you will have at reading more advanced material when the time comes.

8. Let them see you reading. Talk to them about what you are reading. Recommend books to them.

9. When they are older, get them jobs at the library. Libraries always have a need for people to help shelve books! One library in our area has a service night when the library closes early and volunteers help clean the library. There is pizza and soda and the kids absolutely love this night.

10. Listen to books on "tape" in the car. Get them used to both reading and hearing things being read to them.

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#96

Post by mkempe »

GrinningFool wrote: post #76
mkempe wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some teachers don't have to do that. One reason we sent our daughters to (private) Montessori school was to have teachers and lessons completely free from Common Core. Note that Bill Gates also sent his children to a private school that never adopted Common Core, although he was instrumental in pushing and forcing Common Core requirements across the public schools of the country.

Common core standards for English and math were released 2012 with adoption spread out across years for many states. Development of the standards started in 2009. Gate's youngest child would have been starting school ~2008.

Actually the release date was 2010 not 2012: "Standards were released for mathematics and English language arts on June 2, 2010, with a majority of states adopting the standards in the subsequent months." [1] It was adopted by Washington State in 2011. [2]

Are you implying that his children were subjected to Common Core, or that they couldn't have? by 2011, they were age 9, 12, and 15.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Core_State_Standards_In...

[2] https://www.seattleschools.org/academics/curriculum/common_c...

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#97

Post by camelite »

tropo wrote: post #85
mkempe wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Look Say" method you describe (vs the classic "Phonics" method) was also widely deployed in the USA, to the detriment of many children's reading and writing skills.

I object to both. The whole-word method is required for Chinese languages. Phonics is obviously proper for Spanish and Russian. English is not so extreme. Phonics is useful, but it falls short. I've seen the disaster that is pure phonics with English, leading to a kid who mostly couldn't read at age 14. On the other hand, it will be hard to develop a decent vocabulary with the whole-word method. A hybrid approach wor…

One part of the solution is to introduce exceptions early. The whole thing is a more complicated business than a one-to-one sound-letter correspondence. But it is a problem that has been solved for a long time now[1]. Cognitive science is not required. The only mystery is how this is not more widely known.

[1] teach your child to read in 100 easy lessons, and associated school curricula from the same author

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#98

Post by camelite »

sbinthree wrote: post #23

It is amazing how irrational even smart people act about learning to read. Maybe specifically smart people. Please, read the current research. Kids learn to read best out of interest -- with reading material they are interested in and when they are ready to learn. And it makes them better. My parents fought not to teach me to read. I didn't learn to read until I was 11. When I was 12 I went to school for the first ti…

> Please, read the current research.

There's no need. How to teach reading has been a solved problem for at a minimum 30 years. It is not a research question. It does include phonics. The only thing with researching is why in the world apparently intelligent, socially conscious people are still litigating the losing side of a lost war after all this time.

And finally, John Taylor gatto from whom you presumably derive your distaste for the Prussian method, had the following to say:

> That was due to the Dewey revolt in the twenties, in which they threw out phonics reading and went to a word recognition as if you're reading a Chinese pictograph instead of blending sounds or different letters. I think killing phonics was one of the greatest causes of illiteracy in the country.

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#99

Post by smoot_hawley »

For anyone interested in this topic, there's an education documentary covering three teachers who resort to leveraging brain science so as to break through the boredom and disinterest of their students: a great exploration of the personal journeys that led three teachers to use a neuroscience-based teaching model, and showing that model in action within their locales and student age brackets (Roland Park Elementary/Middle School in Baltimore, Maryland; a high school in upstate New York, and a community college in Western Pennsylvania). What really struck me in this documentary was the intimacy with which some students and teachers respond to the model- and it's a very human showing of the personal factors that drive education - both from a teacher and a student standpoint. Told more from the human-experience standpoint, it also covers practical aspects of using brain-based teaching.. worth a look for professional development credits. http://www.greymattersdocumentary.com/

Re: Improving the way kids are taught to read

#100

Post by rajatrocks »

logfromblammo wrote: post #93
arthurjj wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm currently using "Teach your Child to read in 100 Easy Lessons." with my 3 year old. He hasn't had trouble with the reading, but a few of the exercises were too long for him. It uses the DISTAR method which seems to have the most empirical evidence supporting it. (The controversy over DISTAR appears to me to be that it's boring for the teacher)

I used it on two kids. They now both score on standardized tests as reading far in advance of their grade level. This leads to difficulties wherein much of the material available at their level of technical proficiency does not match with either their maturity levels or with their specific interests. Neither of them actually finished all 100 lessons. At some point, they both preferred moving on to actual books rather…

I had the same exact experience with 2 of my sons. Will start the third (5) on it (Teach Your Child to Read...) this summer.
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