How does ‘class-passing’ actually work? • Hacker News Board

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#91

Post by losteverything » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 6:52 PM UTC

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #69

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't Any examples spring to mind?

I highly recommend this book, which is dated but holds up pretty well. I found it funny, sad, but overall just brutal in its characterizations of class in America. It's only available in print too: https://www.amazon.com/Class-Through-American-Status-System/... My overall takeaways from the book were: 1. Class is correlated with income, but not identical. 2. Class is so ingrained in so many areas of our lives that it…

This. Especially coining of top out of sight-ers and bottom out of sight-ers

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#92

Post by ikeyany » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 6:52 PM UTC

Helmet wrote: post #66

ikeyany wrote: post #20

We love to talk about how being born a certain gender or a certain race shouldn't hold you back from achieving anything you want in America. But what if you are unlucky enough to be born into a poor family, or in a backwoods, downtrodden region of the country? My experience aligns with the author's. In movies and feel-good stories shared on social media, we romantically idolize the humble rich person, who came from n…

> There is a moral failing in our country where the pursuit of money is seen as the objective optimal thing to do. But it's very reasonable to look at how money changes people, and to turn away from such a lifestyle in disgust. It's also very easy and PC to venerate the poor out of some misguided sense of pity or moral absolutism. One could look at poor communities, and, as you said "turn away from such a lifestyle i…

> It's also very easy and PC to venerate the poor out of some misguided sense of pity or moral absolutism.

No one genuinely aspires to be destitute. The poor are seen as noble in some aspects, but that's often a defense mechanism from the extreme wealth on the other site of the spectrum.

> I'm also not entirely, or even in the least bit, convinced that our society, institutions, social structures, and general well-being would be better off WITHOUT class distinctions.

I did not mean to imply that we should therefore demolish all class distinctions. But we certainly need introspection, and unfortunately rich perspectives are popularized by default (see film and social media examples cited earlier).

Just because classes are necessary does not mean our attitude towards classes is healthy.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#93

Post by kbenson » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 6:52 PM UTC

trowawee wrote: post #56

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't Any examples spring to mind?

Not the author of the parent comment, but my family shifted from solidly middle-class to members of the 1% over the course of a few years in the early 2000s (my teenage years) as our family business became significantly more successful. Here are some of the things I've experienced that strike me as examples of that: - Talking specifically about money (how much high-ticket items specifically cost, how much anyone spec…

The reverse of this can be true too. Growing up, we weren't rich, but did better than most my friends families. Downplaying that your largish (4 kids) family flies across the country for a week plus vacation once a year and not talking about money or new stuff stuff becomes a thing then too. Partly that was probably me being overly sensitive, but group dynamics and expectations are tricky things, and this was only a mild difference.

Edit: I should note this was in northern California, where people generally do not vacation on the east coast because of both local attractions and a high cost of living that makes saving for vacations much harder to do. We happened to have some family in the Carolinas which was part of our reason.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#94

Post by ericd » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 6:52 PM UTC

tytytytytytytyt wrote: post #63

pb wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with burgers? Expensive restaurants often have really good burgers.

And Ikea has some really good furniture one could assemble themselves, too...

The only way to become wealthy is to spend less than you make. The only way to stay wealthy is to spend less than you make (and have your investments outpace inflation). One of the best ways to do that is to not inflate your lifestyle, like starting to think you're too good for things like putting together your furniture from Ikea.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#95

Post by afterburner » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 6:52 PM UTC

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #69

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't Any examples spring to mind?

I highly recommend this book, which is dated but holds up pretty well. I found it funny, sad, but overall just brutal in its characterizations of class in America. It's only available in print too: https://www.amazon.com/Class-Through-American-Status-System/... My overall takeaways from the book were: 1. Class is correlated with income, but not identical. 2. Class is so ingrained in so many areas of our lives that it…

> and upper class people have nothing to prove to anyone.

Well, except for each other. And very much so.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#96

Post by vostok » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 6:52 PM UTC

malvosenior wrote: post #28

As someone who's navigated their way from poor->middle class->upper middle class I can give a bit of perspective that I rarely see mentioned in these articles... One of the biggest barriers to moving up in class is the people in your starter class. Family, friends, neighbors... almost all of them will start to get very aggressive with you if you seriously try to better yourself. I remember being accused of using too…

> I remember being accused of using too many "five dollar words", being a nerd for spending time learning technology, being a loser for reading books!

The upper class looks down on nerds, especially technology nerds, just as much as if not more than the lower class does.

If we're stereotyping, intellectualism is largely a middle class phenomenon.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#97

Post by aje403 » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 6:52 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

gorpomon wrote: post #7

I spent a summer in NYC a few years ago. While living in NYC I did get a flavor of higher class living with some roommates of mine. It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't. However, this is one issue that's hard to put solely on the foot of the rich or a broader system. Passing in many avenues, not just by class, is really deciding you want to be the…

> It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't Any examples spring to mind?

I'm in my mid 20s. I don't really know any of the ultra-wealthy, but I have some friends who are low execs in IB, Management Consulting, lawyers, have been to virtually every club in the city by now. How to dress when you enter a top club or SoHo House, who to go with, where to go on vacation with what friends to present an image of your wealth, "who did YOU go to the Hamptons with last weekend?" - people present an image to build a network - it's more complex than that, but everything the article is stating is true and may give you an idea.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#98

Post by macNchz » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

gf263 wrote: post #50

saget wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How you dress is very important. Knowing enough about current events and having your own, thoughtful opinion about them. Knowing a number of books and using them in conversation. Rules on when to be blunt are different. Never order a burger at a restaurant. I could go on but it's a hard thing to summarize. (source: was middle/lower class, now have many 1% friends)

>never order a burger at a restaurant Whelp there goes my dreams of hanging with rich people

Au contraire, just stop by JG Melon on Manhattan's Upper East Side, longtime favorite burger joint of wealthy prep school types (and Mike Bloomberg).

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#99

Post by rb808 » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

I disagree its a simple as class & money, there is no such thing as "the rich" or "the workers". Old money vs New Money, West Coast vs East Coast, South Vs North, Coastal vs Midwest, Lawyers vs Tech, USA vs Europe there are a million sub-classes of "Rich" and even more subclasses of working class esp in NYC. Yes I completely agree its very difficult to change your behavior/job/class like the guys in the article. Its also difficult for a middle class Alaskan to make friends in NY or female nerd to enjoy working in tech or a fat lazy MidWesterner to make friends in Malibu.

The more class/religious/language/wealth/cultural/racial/geographic barriers your cross the more difficult it is to change, but the Guardian often reduces this to a class war which is overly simplified.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#100

Post by sctb » Thu, Feb 01, 2018, 6:53 PM UTC

jnordwick wrote: post #14

HN should just change its name to Hate America and Capitalism Knews. Yet another all politics story about how America isn't perfect or capitalists is evil. A daily occurrence on HN.

Please just flag stories quietly and don't rave like this in the thread.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html