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ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

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Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#91

Post by JBlue42 »

ActsJuvenile wrote: post #63
tehlike wrote: post #47

I said this before, and i will say it again. Call your representative and voice your opinion. Donate to eff and aclu or any other civil and digital liberties organizations, to help them protect our privacy and rights through legal means. Privacy evasion is slippery slope and it only gets worse. Take this as your daily or weekly reminder to do something, even if that something is donating just the price of a coffee.

I am feeling pessimistic man. We had a few decades of privacy and human rights progress post World Wars. But with Terrorism on the rise there is no way for privacy or human rights to make a comeback. We will see increasingly clever ways to water down laws we already have in place.

>Terrorism on the rise

Terrorism in the US isn't on the rise (unless we're counting white supremacists marches, which the media doesn't) but the powers that be and their cohorts are still milking the teat and our fears from 9/11 on this stuff. People who have no reason to be scared of any of this also won't stand up to it ('I'm not a criminal so it doesn't matter...'). Also funny that when/if another attack does happen, it will be those of us in blue cities (NYC, LA, SF, etc.) sacrificing our lives even if we're against this stuff and the system as it is.

Fear is a business and some people are making bank. Osama would be proud.

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#92

Post by JBlue42 »

scarface74 wrote: post #24
chucksmash wrote: post #13

It would be nice to see voters react to these sorts of technologies (whether they're provided by private companies or not) the way people reacted to the idea of being filmed via Google Glass when they went to a bar on a Friday night.

Of course they won't. The same group of anti government people are very pro hard on crime/ pro police.

Yeah, also love cops and firemen voting Republican - you know, tough on crime, small business - while also pulling down taxpayer OT pay and pensions. Is there any metric showing they Republican party is actually good at enacting crime-fighting policies or are they just good at funding crime fighters? Seems more like the latter.

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#93

Post by chrismcb »

mc32 wrote: post #22
mschuster91 wrote: post #6

Yet another piece of evidence that the US is turning into an authoritarian state - as, to be fair, others do too (especially China!), but the US have the unique advantage of being the technologically most advanced civilization. In earlier times, when situations got too authoritarian, there were rebellions and revolution. With the level of militarization in police and military and the abilities made possible by today'…

To quote madam secretary, "at this point, what difference does it make". People have been more then willing to give up their data to FB, Google, Apple, etc. The only difference is this is captured by governments --who at least in theory represent the voting public. It'll be interesting to see what the outcome is. Will the public demand the government regulate industry as well as ask it to rein in its own capabilities…

With companies you can sue them. You can find them, break them up, throw them in jail. With the government, not so much.

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#95

Post by joering2 »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #79
mc32 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To quote madam secretary, "at this point, what difference does it make". People have been more then willing to give up their data to FB, Google, Apple, etc. The only difference is this is captured by governments --who at least in theory represent the voting public. It'll be interesting to see what the outcome is. Will the public demand the government regulate industry as well as ask it to rein in its own capabilities…

The license plate cameras are actually a special case. If you don't like most types of surveillance there are a lot of countermeasures a concerned party can use. Run your own servers, use encryption, etc. The problem with license plates is that the equivalent thing is to obscure your license plate, which is prohibited by law. So it's not just that the government is collecting publicly available information, it's that…

Obscuring license plate might be prohibited by law, but so far I been pulled over twice for not having license plate AT ALL. Twice got ticket to show up at court, twice case was dismissed because cop did not show up.

I don't think there is law for not having a license plate. License plate are only required in case you commit a crime or break the law using your vehicle so identifying you is required. I was ready to argue in the court that I should be presumed innocent when it comes to driving my car, just like walking on the street I m presumed innocent and do not have to have my state ID plastered to my forehead, in case. I'm currently awaiting to be pulled over for the third time.

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#96

Post by refurb »

tptacek wrote: post #5
EduardoBautista wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who gets to determine what is considered ethical?

In general, the individual engineers do. The point of ethics training is to recognize that you have ethical obligations that extend past your job responsibilities, and that when your ethics conflict with your work tasks, it's not your ethics that should compromise. For some of us, that might mean not working on a project that we could reasonably foresee would result in the deportation of children who don't speak Span…

Ok, so if I'm an engineer and I think the ethical thing to do is help build a better license plate scanning technology to protect everyone from terrorism, then what?

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#97

Post by electricslpnsld »

joering2 wrote: post #95
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The license plate cameras are actually a special case. If you don't like most types of surveillance there are a lot of countermeasures a concerned party can use. Run your own servers, use encryption, etc. The problem with license plates is that the equivalent thing is to obscure your license plate, which is prohibited by law. So it's not just that the government is collecting publicly available information, it's that…

Obscuring license plate might be prohibited by law, but so far I been pulled over twice for not having license plate AT ALL. Twice got ticket to show up at court, twice case was dismissed because cop did not show up. I don't think there is law for not having a license plate. License plate are only required in case you commit a crime or break the law using your vehicle so identifying you is required. I was ready to ar…

> I been pulled over twice for not having license plate AT ALL

Where did this happen? I see tons of cars without plates in California and Oregon. When I was living in New York I saw zero cars without license plates. I can't imagine one is going to get too far without plates in the tri-state.

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#99

Post by joering2 »

electricslpnsld wrote: post #97
joering2 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obscuring license plate might be prohibited by law, but so far I been pulled over twice for not having license plate AT ALL. Twice got ticket to show up at court, twice case was dismissed because cop did not show up. I don't think there is law for not having a license plate. License plate are only required in case you commit a crime or break the law using your vehicle so identifying you is required. I was ready to ar…

> I been pulled over twice for not having license plate AT ALL Where did this happen? I see tons of cars without plates in California and Oregon. When I was living in New York I saw zero cars without license plates. I can't imagine one is going to get too far without plates in the tri-state.

Not tri-state. Sorry doesn't want to reveal my location but USA indeed.

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#100

Post by Consultant32452 »

mschuster91 wrote: post #6

Yet another piece of evidence that the US is turning into an authoritarian state - as, to be fair, others do too (especially China!), but the US have the unique advantage of being the technologically most advanced civilization. In earlier times, when situations got too authoritarian, there were rebellions and revolution. With the level of militarization in police and military and the abilities made possible by today'…

I'm playing around with a thought experiment in my head and would like your opinions. Considering this topic in comparison to getting a warrant for a criminal's cell phone location. Here's some considerations:

1. What is the status of an illegal immigrant who might get queried? There's two categories of illegal aliens. The first is unlawful entry (people hopping the border), this is a crime. Then there's unlawful presence, or outstaying your visa, this is a civil infraction. If ICE knows enough about this person to specifically query this database for them, surely there must be a bench warrant or something? I genuinely don't know this.

2. Unlike the cell phone location warrant, it appears this will not require a warrant. This to me is THE problem. If they were required to get a separate warrant for every query, then I would likely not have much concern.

3. ICE is not creating a database itself, but purchasing the ability to query commercially available data. This distinction possibly matters legally. Does it matter ethically?

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