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Life expectancy in America has declined for two years in a row

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Re: Life expectancy in America has declined for two years in a row

#91
post #8

Lingering effects of the great recession. There is a very strong and well studied relationship between unemployment, economic stress, and drug abuse. These are people who are depressed (clinically, economically, or often both), and they are self medicating. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/04/joblessne... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3935688/ Unfortunately the media-driven obsession wit…

> Lingering effects of the great recession Other countries went through the Great Recession, didn't recover as well as the U.S., and are not suffering from the problem. Also, the problem started in the last couple of years while the Great Recession began in 2008 (EDIT: and has since ended, with unemployment low for the last two years).

> Other countries went through the Great Recession, didn't recover as well as the U.S.

The US recovery looks decent in top-line aggregate terms, but the distributional aspects are quite bad. (And that was true of the recovery from the previous recession, as well.)

For broad social impacts, the distributional aspects are more significant than the top-line aggregates.

Re: Life expectancy in America has declined for two years in a row

#92
post #13

A recent episode of "The Weeds" podcast was all about this [1]. I highly recommend listening to it and the podcast in general. The general thoughts are (especially for those poo-pooing the findings): - The cause is likely a massive increase in drug overdose deaths, whose average age of death is lower than other common causes (>20% year over year increase, mainly opioid-related) [2] - The drop in life expectancy is no…

Also the fact that we now are aware of the opioid problem and are starting to really crack down on over-prescription of pills causing addicts to turn to heroin or fentanyl has to be a big factor. What percent actually OD on pills?

Re: Life expectancy in America has declined for two years in a row

#93
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll be more inclined to listen to diatribes about the inevitability of America's economic decline when we no longer have the highest corporate tax rates in the world. Until then, I firmly place the blame of America's economic woes on one political party. Hint: it's the party of higher taxes.

Huh? America can be economically ascendant - we have a LOT of businesses doing quite well with massive profits and cash holdings, tax rates completely aside - without being dominant in every single industry. Regional drug addiction trends are NOT national economic issues (the national economy has been going up at the same time as the opiod abuse!), but plainly regional ones. What specific parts of the opiod issue do…

The thing that I don't get about this opioid crisis is I keep hearing about it but I have never really seen the corresponding human misery being captured in photography or film -- I see and hear words but I can't gauge the magnitude of the problem. Is this mainly prescription opiates? That's an issue with with the ethics of medical professionals more than anything else -- if you have a low threshold to prescribe this shit what the hell bdo you expect?

Update: found a nice heat map from NY Times; still the issue is there are no absolute numbers or the table that shows how the color gradient in the heat map progresses -- I get tall tales of year over year percentage increases but no absolute numbers to reference against. Is it really that hard to make a decent chart/graphic for this for a org like NYT?

Re: Life expectancy in America has declined for two years in a row

#95
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I certainly don't like the US having higher prices than elsewhere in the world, but what I would like to see more discussion of there is "where does the funding for the development of the treatments come from" rather than just comparison of absolute cost. I suspect we're subsidizing (especially at the top of the market) a lot of research that the rest of the world is also benefiting from. This isn't necessarily the w…

Here is more nuance for you: A) Americans need to be more health centric. Half the problem is that a minority of chronic patients account for 50% of the costs. Drive through rural America, fast food is the only option. Grocery shopping at Dollar stores and gas stations. Solving Americas obesity epidemic is step one in fixing US healthcare. B) Big pharma regulations. I like the idea of importing drugs and creating mor…

These are very good and fair points that I was ignoring so far.

Personally, to avoid being someone just criticizing but not offering my own ideas, here's my initial recipe at the moment based on what I've learned so far is (subject to change from new information, of course :) ). It actually includes all three:

* Government-mandated health insurance coverage at a certain useful minimum level. Insurance companies allowed to offer bettter plans as well, at higher prices. Keeping insurance coverage private reduces transitional shock to the system.

* Government subsidies based on income to make the minimum mandated coverage level attainable.

* Employer-sponsered plans are banned. Get rid of some corporate power imbalance vs small companies/individuals, and get hidden private subsidies out of the system.

* I'd try to take your (A) a bit further: the minimum-coverage plans could have some coverage gaps around self-inflicted conditions, and very little coverage for optional/purely cosmetic/not-necessary treatments. This may not be politically feasible - it could be seen as too cruel, or it could catch on with America's latent "personal responsibility" instincts; either way, I think it's the fairest place to treat as a first-line cost-control location for coverage. I need a second part, here, though, about making healthier options easier to come by for some, though.

* Completely agreed on banning drug B2C marketing. Let the drug's effectiveness sell itself to doctors, let that sell it to consumers.

* Beyond that, aggressively pro-research pricing and tax incentive policies, both for domestic drug companies and foreign ones - some of this might require policy discussions with other countries, but ultimately it's in everyone's interest if we get a bunch of research funded as in the long run, we'll make way more things treatable and have way more cheap drug options available. I think as long as we have a healthy market that we make sure rewards performance, not marketing we can keep the incentives in the right place.

* I think an annual physical is a good thing to include in the individual healthcare mandate as part of the insurance re-up process.

Obesity is a particularly tough one, though. Generally, populations that eat less (and less unhealthy simple-carb-based-stuff) and walk more appear to have less obesity, but politically this isn't a big winner, and would run into a lot of resistance if pitched as a "fixable by individual action" thing. And penalties for not meeting certain targets might be impossible - does anyone really want to put someone in jail for not paying a health fine for not getting healthier compared to the previous year? I don't, but if there's no teeth to it, how would it ever work?

Re: Life expectancy in America has declined for two years in a row

#96
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first number is a good thing. We’re overeducated in the US.

> The first number is a good thing. We’re overeducated in the US. Is that even possible? It's not as if we're swimming in demand for unskilled labor at a living wage. The underlying problem seems to be that college (along with housing and healthcare) are too expensive and people can't afford them.

The underlying problem is that college is the wrong thing. College focuses on capital-E “Education.” Book learning, “big ideas,” and “learning to think.” What we need is training—teaching people the concrete skills they need for a job. That’s true even in majors that are ostensibly directed to producing professionals. Engineering school often focuses too much on producing PhD candidates rather than practicing engineers, law school focuses too much on producing law professors than practicing lawyers, etc. College is a monument built by academia in honor of itself, and for the most part is a giant waste of everyone’s time and money.

Re: Life expectancy in America has declined for two years in a row

#97
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? America can be economically ascendant - we have a LOT of businesses doing quite well with massive profits and cash holdings, tax rates completely aside - without being dominant in every single industry. Regional drug addiction trends are NOT national economic issues (the national economy has been going up at the same time as the opiod abuse!), but plainly regional ones. What specific parts of the opiod issue do…

The thing that I don't get about this opioid crisis is I keep hearing about it but I have never really seen the corresponding human misery being captured in photography or film -- I see and hear words but I can't gauge the magnitude of the problem. Is this mainly prescription opiates? That's an issue with with the ethics of medical professionals more than anything else -- if you have a low threshold to prescribe this…

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/30/faces-of-an-ep... will give you some human form

Prescription opiates that lead to street drugs like heroin or illicitly-sourced ones after the prescription runs out, is my understanding. I don't know how the numbers break down in terms of initial exposure - how many bored desparate people were seeking a release, how many people got injured and then got hooked, etc...? But when we end up talking about drugs designed for 2,000lb elephants, it doesn't seem purely a problem of doctors/pharmacists, people are getting it from some unofficial sources.

Re: Life expectancy in America has declined for two years in a row

#98

Other measures of human welfare that are declining in the U.S.: * "This year, the number of domestic undergraduate students dropped 224,000" https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/02/us/international-enrollme... * If nothing is done, the number of Americans with health insurance is expected to decline by millions this year (due to the repeal of the health care tax (I forget the term they used) in the new tax law). * With CH…

Your first point is misleading. As birthrates fluctuate (ex: "the baby boom" was a high point), so do the number of people who can potentially be starting college in a given year (at the traditional age).

The next few years of Americans to turn 18 are smaller than the year before them. If the likelihood of Americans to go to college remains similar, domestic student populations will decline for reasons of demography, not malaise.

Re: Life expectancy in America has declined for two years in a row

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We could shift the low-demand graduates to high-demand graduates with somewhat decreased cost, in theory, by simply axing two thirds of the low-demand programs, no? By what mechanism would you do this? It's not as if there is a centralized bureau of programs for all universities. In theory you could stop offering student loans to students studying low demand subjects, but we haven't actually done that. > If the dem…

Yes, I think loan policy changes are our most practical knob to turn, as I think many of the current problems are the result of making college too apparently cheap with easy loans and deferred payments. Cracking down on for-profit colleges is a good first step, even though we've somewhat slowed down on that lately. I'd favor a less prescriptive method around "study this, not that" and a more responsive one: your loan…

> Emerging industries can't work like this - someone has to do the work before the universities catch up

Creating something new and teaching people the current state of the art are two separate things. And universities do both of them.

The things invented in Bell Labs in the 1950s are taught in universities today, but the researchers at Bell Labs had college degrees. It's a feedback loop.

> so how do we quantify e.g. how desperate we truly are for programmers?

Median salary is a very strong quantification, especially accounting for sub-specialization. It's possible we need more DBAs but not more web designers.

> I'm sure there's a middle ground between "the risk of training this person and them leaving is small enough compared to the potential return they'd give us since the field is so ripe" and "nah, we're totally good," but how do we find out where in that space we are?

They just don't benefit from it at all.

Suppose you pay $150,000 to train someone with the expectation that you'll pay them $50,000/year for five years and the training will allow them to do the work of an $80,000/year employee, so you'll break even (ignoring time value of money). Except that once they can do the work of an $80,000/year employee, they can immediately quit and get a job paying $80,000/year and you can't retain them by paying $50,000/year.

The alternative is to loan them the money, so if they leave they still have to pay you back for the training. But now you've just reinvented universities and student loans and companies don't get anything out of doing it in house that they wouldn't from hiring graduates from normal schools who borrow money from normal banks.

Companies know that they aren't any better at being a university than a university is and they aren't any better at being a bank than a bank is, so they don't try to be.

Re: Life expectancy in America has declined for two years in a row

#100
post #80
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Has democracy failed? An outsider was elected even though he was running against establishment candidates with huge money backing them. I say democracy won.

You say that as though Trump doesn't have huge money backing him, not to mention foreign governments with equally deep pockets.

For the election campaign, according to Bloomberg [1] and the NY Times [2], Trump had half a billion dollars less backing him ($1.2B for Clinton, $650M for Trump)

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/graphics/2016-presidentia...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/us/politics/campaign-spen...

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