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Fuck you, Money

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Re: Fuck you, Money

#91

Post by nostrademons »

enjo wrote: post #70
revorad wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's no coincidence that the likes of Page and Brin and Zuckerberg never really intended to start businesses. I think it's no accident that Warren Buffett still drives an old Cadillac and lives in his old suburban house. I can think of a few counter-examples - Bill Gates, Mark Cuban, Felix Dennis.

There are a lot of examples on an even much larger scale. I know two folks who have sold businesses and now live in Hawaii doing practically nothing. It's really not that uncommon. It's just that those folks fade into memory while the workaholics continue to work and increase in overall profile. It really feels a lot like the 90 hour work week insanity of the tech boom. For years after that I encountered business-typ…

A bunch of startups that I've encountered operate that way, but there seems to be a strong negative correlation between sleeping at the office and the eventual success of the startup. The ones I know that succeed work hard, often 9-10 hour days, but their employees have weekends and aren't at the office all night long.

Re: Fuck you, Money

#92

Post by Groxx »

apu wrote: post #44

I think these guys might be the best trolls I've ever seen on the web. First the NY Sucks article, and now this. Everything from the title, to the giant fuck you to "wage slaves" in the 2nd paragraph, to the fuck you to investors in the 4th paragraph to the fuck you to the Goldman folks later on, screams, "I'M GOING TO PISS YOU OFF SO YOU PAY ATTENTION TO ME." Bravo! Might I suggest a topic for your next essay? "Are…

Followed closely by " 'Fuck you?' FUCK YOU TOO"

Re: Fuck you, Money

#93

Post by nostrademons »

binaryfinery wrote: post #30
arvinjoar wrote: post #21

I stopped reading at "wage-slave". Let's not use language that implies that working for a wage is slavery. Slavery is always forced on you, you have no choice but to work, not because you need to eat, but because the man with the whip says so. It's offensive to compare the situation of a slave and someone who earns a salary. Slavery is force, not from nature, but from another human being, if you can't see the the dis…

Hierarchy of needs: air, food, shelter. If you live in the USA and want food and shelter, you cannot get it without paying the man taxes. Even if you own your own land, you must pay taxes on it. The counter argument (that one could be a homeless person), is no more useful than pointing out that a slave could choose to die: yes a hard choice, but a choice non the less. So the creation of a tax system, whereby a person…

There is a huge difference between having to work for one particular person and having to work.

Warren Buffett once said that the ideal amount of money to leave your children is "Enough so that they can do anything, but not so much that they can do nothing." Just because you have to do something doesn't make you a slave. You have the freedom to decide what that something is.

Re: Fuck you, Money

#94

Post by nostrademons »

steveklabnik wrote: post #73
rfrey wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom is not the same as having no responsibilities. Slavery is not the same as having responsibilities. Environmental constraints are not the same as having no choices. Consequences for one's choices are not the same as oppression.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't work to eat; just that working for someone else isn't preferable to working for yourself. It's much more efficient, you get to keep all of your economic output, rather than giving it to someone else.

You're always working for someone else; that's why they pay you. The difference between employment and entrepreneurship is whether you're working for one person or for many people.

Re: Fuck you, Money

#95

Post by btilly »

nostrademons wrote: post #90
btilly wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be amazed at how fast everything can change. I was always someone who made more money than I could figure out how to spend. Even when I was a starving grad student. Then my wife and I grew up, we had kids, and she got injured. Do you have any idea how much it costs for full-time childcare when you're working and your wife is unable to take care of the kids? (Luckily most of the medical bills were taken care of…

Yeah, I know how fast things can change. My father got sick and died last fall. For that whole time period, my bank account (which had been monotonically increasing since I got my job) just stayed flat and even decreased a bit. Airline tickets are remarkably expensive when you're flying between coasts every couple of weeks and often don't know the days when you'll need to jet out. Plus I wasn't working for much of th…

For a short time, yeah. But when you have a long-lasting change in life circumstance, as I did, your savings cushion suddenly changes dramatically for the worse. A cutback in the 2008 financial crisis cost me a few months of paychecks.

The result? A decade ago I had your attitude. I now have a very different view of the world.

Re: Fuck you, Money

#96

Post by philwelch »

steveklabnik wrote: post #56
afterburner wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can leave anytime though. Slaves can't.

You can leave your job, sure. And then default on your mortgage. Or be unable to pay your rent. And not be able to buy food. (or, if you mean "leave America," then you can move somewhere else... and you _still_ have to either work for yourself, or for someone else.) There's an illusion of choice, but choosing to work between McDonalds and Burger King isn't really a choice.

That's the human condition. You can sit on your ass instead of hunting or gathering, but then you'd go hungry and be shunned by your tribe. You can sit on your ass instead of working your fields, but then your crops won't grow and you'll go hungry. You can sit on your ass instead of going to work at the mill every day, and then you won't be able to afford any food and you'll go hungry.

I'm grateful we can sit in meetings and type code into computers in air-conditioned offices for our supper. Of course, building a business and having supper for life would be fantastic.

Re: Fuck you, Money

#97

Post by alex1 »

dirtae wrote: post #10

"Before anything else, let’s do the numbers: money market funds yield around 4%." What? The Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund (VMMXX) is yielding about 0.13% right now, and I think that's fairly typical.

The best money market account rates in the US are actually around 1-1.3% now (Ally, Capital One, Discover, ING, AIG).

Definitely not 4%. That was in 2005.

Re: Fuck you, Money

#98

Post by dreaming »

joey_bananas wrote: post #27

Wow, this sounds like the screed of a collage freshman who just discovered that the adult world is like, totally fake and shallow, man.

Tell me more about this collage freshman. Or is this a subtle suggestion hinting at a broad but nonspecific makeup of his persona...

Re: Fuck you, Money

#99

Post by roel_v »

revorad wrote: post #37
jdietrich wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the world of high-stakes poker, it is commonly understood that the only way to make a million dollars playing poker is not to want to make a million dollars. If you care about the money, your lizard brain takes over and stops you from taking the risks you need to take. As soon as you see the chips on the table as dollar bills, you're finished. Practically the definition of greatness in poker is the ability to play…

I think it's no coincidence that the likes of Page and Brin and Zuckerberg never really intended to start businesses. I think it's no accident that Warren Buffett still drives an old Cadillac and lives in his old suburban house. I can think of a few counter-examples - Bill Gates, Mark Cuban, Felix Dennis.

Bill Gates had a $5m trust fund when he started Microsoft. He never had to worry if his next rent check would bounce. He had peace of mind to do whatever he wanted and if it didn't work out, ah well, nothing lost. That a whole different position (mentally) to start in as someone who will destroy his own life as well as his families when his company tanks.

The others I don't know, maybe they are truly 'self-made', like Oprah.

Re: Fuck you, Money

#100

Post by c1sc0 »

krschultz wrote: post #61
binaryfinery wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hierarchy of needs: air, food, shelter. If you live in the USA and want food and shelter, you cannot get it without paying the man taxes. Even if you own your own land, you must pay taxes on it. The counter argument (that one could be a homeless person), is no more useful than pointing out that a slave could choose to die: yes a hard choice, but a choice non the less. So the creation of a tax system, whereby a person…

If you don't make any money, you won't have to pay taxes. If you don't have any bills, you won't need to make any money. Taxes are not what creates the issue you refer to, bills are. The individual really controls those expenses. That is why any comparison to slavery is asine, out of touch, and offensive. Rolling in TAXES == SLAVERY is the icing on the cake. You control your own expenses. I've lived very cheap. Give…

I've known plenty of people like this in the climbing community. When you drop out of society, it is amazing how little you need.
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