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SymbOS: Graphical Z80 Multitasking Operating System

symbos.de

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Re: SymbOS: Graphical Z80 Multitasking Operating System

#91

The Z80 will always have a place in my heart. Mostly because we used it in college to build a computer from scratch on a wire board. That was an awesome project, and one of the classes that I remember fondly from nearly 18 years ago.

We did a similar thing with an 8086 processors around the same time. I only wish we did more of coding firmware rather than all the time designing the wireboard and circuits.

Re: SymbOS: Graphical Z80 Multitasking Operating System

#92

Oh wow, I'm getting Amstrad craving all over again.

They're still around. I've put one together over the course of years, a) for nostalgia value, and b) for my children to at least be able to use the system I learned to program on. Mine is a 464 w/ DDI interface, 64KiB RAM expansion, SDcard based "floppy" drive, mouse, and RS232 serial port. Still only a green screen, though, and I've yet to make a ROM box. Also see: https://github.com/Octoate/cpc-sdcc-rom/

I had one of those Amstrad with green screen in the US. Sold mainly as a word processing system. My dad bought it since we couldn't afford a PC at that time. It did its job as a word processor well plus I had a great time digging into the guts of the CP/M operating system. What I really hated was that it had a 3" floppy which were hard to find.

Re: SymbOS: Graphical Z80 Multitasking Operating System

#93
post #9

Symbos is pretty cool but it's a crying shame that it's closed source. A lot of people in the z80 community don't understand the value of open source, but will give away binaries for free.

Z80 OS for a 1980s micro... wouldn't be surprised if the assembly is the source.

Labels, macros and comments still help!

Re: SymbOS: Graphical Z80 Multitasking Operating System

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people in the z80 community don't understand Don't be so patronizing. Of course they understand it, but what they want is something different from what you want: status in the demo scene. If they open source it they're likely to end up as a footnote in their own projects rather than basking on difficult-to-scale peaks among their peers. It's not like open-sourcing it is going to enrich them in some more conc…

status in the demo scene ...and since the demoscene is closely associated with the cracking/warez scene, the implicit message is always "if you want to know how it works, get a disassembler and figure it out yourself."

This

Re: SymbOS: Graphical Z80 Multitasking Operating System

#95
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any links/pointers to systems that did this?

Wrote my own for 68xx and 65xx chips in ancient times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relocation_(computing) If you have access to the symbol table it is an easy problem to solve, if you don't it can get quite difficult all the way to impossible if the original code makes use of tricks such as jumping into the middle of an instruction. But if the code is 'well behaved' then it can usually be done. Many games used tric…

For fun, I took a "happy medium" approach in KnightOS. Programs are written with RSTs (basically the z80 version of traps) next to each instruction with a relative address, then the kernel looks up the return address on the stack, partially decodes the next instruction, and then modifies the code in RAM to update the address to the correct one. It's basically just-in-time PIC.

https://github.com/KnightOS/kernel/blob/master/src/00/restar...

Re: SymbOS: Graphical Z80 Multitasking Operating System

#96
Cool! Why exactly did it take so long BTW? (not complaining, just curious about the hard parts). Although the first computer I've used was a ZX Spectrum I was too young to program it at the time and have never had time to actually revisit it later. About a decade later (that was the epoch of Windows XP and Ubuntu already) I had a dream of running Visual Basic 1.0 for DOS on it, developing text-mode pseudographical winforms-like apps (clones of Total Commander and Excel :-)). Ever since then I have been passively curious about whether it actually is hard or not and why nobody actually tries this (isn't the GUI alone actually a fairly easy thing every computer can manage as long as we give up all the eye-candy effects and accept the fact actual calculations on data are going to be fairly slow?). Cool to see people have implemented something like this actually and have even done it in graphics rather than in just pseudo. Also, why can't we use modern languages like Python or their subsets to write Z80 programs, at least very simple ones?

Re: SymbOS: Graphical Z80 Multitasking Operating System

#97
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're still around. I've put one together over the course of years, a) for nostalgia value, and b) for my children to at least be able to use the system I learned to program on. Mine is a 464 w/ DDI interface, 64KiB RAM expansion, SDcard based "floppy" drive, mouse, and RS232 serial port. Still only a green screen, though, and I've yet to make a ROM box. Also see: https://github.com/Octoate/cpc-sdcc-rom/

I had one of those Amstrad with green screen in the US. Sold mainly as a word processing system. My dad bought it since we couldn't afford a PC at that time. It did its job as a word processor well plus I had a great time digging into the guts of the CP/M operating system. What I really hated was that it had a 3" floppy which were hard to find.

Ah, you probably had a PCW:

https://blog.twitter.com/official/en_us/topics/company/2017/...

Don't let the 3" drives put you off. These days SDcard based "floppy drives" make life a lot easier:

https://hackaday.com/2016/02/28/floppy-drive-hides-sd-card-r...

I have one for my CPC. Note that in the particular case of the CPC464 (not the 664 or 6128) you'll still need the Amstrad DDI disk interface unit, as the base 464 has no disk controller built in.

Re: SymbOS: Graphical Z80 Multitasking Operating System

#98
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had one of those Amstrad with green screen in the US. Sold mainly as a word processing system. My dad bought it since we couldn't afford a PC at that time. It did its job as a word processor well plus I had a great time digging into the guts of the CP/M operating system. What I really hated was that it had a 3" floppy which were hard to find.

Ah, you probably had a PCW: https://blog.twitter.com/official/en_us/topics/company/2017/... Don't let the 3" drives put you off. These days SDcard based "floppy drives" make life a lot easier: https://hackaday.com/2016/02/28/floppy-drive-hides-sd-card-r... I have one for my CPC. Note that in the particular case of the CPC464 (not the 664 or 6128) you'll still need the Amstrad DDI disk interface unit, as the base 464…

Yeah that is the one. It eventually failed after many years. I remember typing up the Eliza program in BASIC for it and one of our neighbors kids still has fond memories of playing with it.

Re: SymbOS: Graphical Z80 Multitasking Operating System

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to have pictures, take landscapes.

Is this really where we are at now? Don't demonstrate any software using pictures of people, even in a niche hobbyist OS for a retro CPU architecture, just in case someone gets offended.

I dunno, apparently. I personally like landscapes anyway, but am not offended by pictures of people... Just naming what might please others. :)

Re: SymbOS: Graphical Z80 Multitasking Operating System

#100
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had one of those Amstrad with green screen in the US. Sold mainly as a word processing system. My dad bought it since we couldn't afford a PC at that time. It did its job as a word processor well plus I had a great time digging into the guts of the CP/M operating system. What I really hated was that it had a 3" floppy which were hard to find.

Ah, you probably had a PCW: https://blog.twitter.com/official/en_us/topics/company/2017/... Don't let the 3" drives put you off. These days SDcard based "floppy drives" make life a lot easier: https://hackaday.com/2016/02/28/floppy-drive-hides-sd-card-r... I have one for my CPC. Note that in the particular case of the CPC464 (not the 664 or 6128) you'll still need the Amstrad DDI disk interface unit, as the base 464…

Gah, wrong link there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amstrad_PCW

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