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As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

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Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#91

Post by kinkrtyavimoodh »

fellellor wrote: post #65
seibelj wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems right to me, given the job prospects for someone whose talent is speaking two languages. Do you think the market for Italian / English specialists is super hot?

Leaving everything to be decided by market factors definitely has it's flaws. There should be room for authorities\patrons to intervene and prevent a certain skill set from being wiped out because it doesn't make business sense to preserve them.

Sure, not everything should be left to market forces, but there should usually be a reason to interfere with market forces—what reason do you propose for this case? Italian-English bilingualism is not in the least a rare skill that needs to be prevented from being wiped out.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#92

Post by mc32 »

tanilama wrote: post #77
janekm wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You underestimate the value of an “overseas” degree in “developing” countries like China. A student who comes back to China with a US/UK degree will get preferential access to first-tier city resident permits, direct financial “housing” benefits from the city, a good job and faster career advancement and more besides. Some of those benefits are starting to get scaled back but it’s still a big advantage.

U overstated it vastly...In China, UK degrees got so inflated, many of which being one year master, that they are pretty useless now.Oversea working experience is still valued

While it may be true with regard to UK Unis, I'm not sure it's applicable to US schools.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#93

Post by quickben »

fellellor wrote: post #57
mc32 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As other have pointed out, this is mostly about the schools losing full-tuition international students, ie.e "International students pay double the $6,445 tuition of Missouri residents" --which is insane. I mean, it's insane for in-state students to have to shell out 6.5 thousand a year for higher ed... The international students are typically those kids of parents who are perhaps middle to upper middle class in a fo…

>go back home for a job Haha. Not really. American salaries, standards of living are among the highest/best in the planet. Plus an abundance of economic opportunities and relatively low discrimination compared to what one may face in other developed countries. These are the only factors which decide whether a family sends their kid to the US for higher ed or not. The degrees themselves aren't worth much at all. Unles…

My old country gave to whoever returns home with a foreign degree up to 95% salary match from what they would have made if they stayed.

You can rack $100k USD, in a country where average yearly salary is $2k and living expenses are nil.

When you talk about 'standard of living', imagine what standard of living you'd have in USA at 50x average salary. If I'm not mistaken that would be around 1-2 million a year. Add to that free unlimited healthcare, free prescriptions glasses. No land ownership fees, no condo fees, some money to buy your way anywhere, etc.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#94

Post by hardwires »

fellellor wrote: post #65
seibelj wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems right to me, given the job prospects for someone whose talent is speaking two languages. Do you think the market for Italian / English specialists is super hot?

Leaving everything to be decided by market factors definitely has it's flaws. There should be room for authorities\patrons to intervene and prevent a certain skill set from being wiped out because it doesn't make business sense to preserve them.

It's not being "wiped out", it's being scaled down to sustainable levels.

If "the authorities" protect price levels for every job that is in a larger supply than demand, that money goes straight out of the pockets of the people who perform jobs that are in demand, i.e. the people performing the tasks that are needed the most by all the other people.

You have a less efficient economy as a result, which makes people poorer on the average.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#95

Post by melling »

lewis500 wrote: post #40

There are really three different downsides to this. First, the foreign students cross-subsidize the locals' education. There are large fixed costs to running a university and these students pay way above their marginal costs. So now the universities have fewer resources; hence cutting the newspaper funding etc. Second, the foreign students increase the schools' reputations and can collaborate with the faculty. Resear…

This is all negative for the US but our loss is the world’s gain. China’s economy will pass the US’s in the 2030’s, for example. India will rise to #3.

We should expect more R&D from the rest of the world. China may lead the world in AI and space exploration. India in drug research. Billions of people will come out of poverty.

American students may flock to India to get a better education at a fraction of the cost.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#96

Post by seanmcdirmid »

xkcd-sucks wrote: post #81
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my own PhD program, the productivity of the Americans was much lower than the foreigners. I think the bias has swung way too far the other way. Racism against Americans is still racism. Also, this applies mainly to undergrads (full paying students), not PhD students who are generally fully funded.

You have to be crazy (e.g. addicted to the process of a research career) or clueless to start a PhD unless it figures your path to citizenship, so yeah most american PhD students are probably not the best and brightest assuming the talented crazies are a minority.

Eh. Also, Chinese are in it for the green card and Americans are in it because they just love the subject. What other gross generalizations can we come up with?

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#97

Post by dragonwriter »

mc32 wrote: post #66
dragonwriter wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would I pay tuition as a legal immigrant on say a F-1 visa No such thing as a “legal immigrant on an F-1 visa”, as an F-1 is a non-immigrant visa and F-1s are non-resident aliens legally prohibited from establishing a US domicile. > if I came in illegally, I would have a chance at getting a subsidy The only people who came in illegally who can be considered residents for UC tuition purposes—as stated on the pag…

I concede it look like DACA has some time requirements most F-1 students would not satisfy (in addition to the entry age req) Still a non insignificant amount came here on non-immigrant visas also (tourist visas). In any event, there may be some meat for a class action by international students who may not want to pay the "full-fare" price they pay, given otherwise international students (on expired tourist visas) ar…

> I concede it look like DACA has some time requirements most F-1 students would not satisfy (in addition to the entry age req)

Well, plus if you are in a legal status, you aren't eligible for DACA, plud DACA has been closed to new applicants, so literally no one can qualify for it newly now.

> Still a non insignificant amount came here on non-immigrant visas also (tourist visas).

So?

> In any event, there may be some meat for a class action by international students who may not want to pay the "full-fare" price they pay, given otherwise international students (on expired tourist visas) are eligible for state subsidy.

International students (including a very restricted set of undocumented ones) who are residents are eligible for a state subsidy; residency is, however, incompatible with certain immigration statuses that are nonetheless compatible with study, including F-1.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#98

Post by malloryerik »

pkaye wrote: post #74
lewis500 wrote: post #40

There are really three different downsides to this. First, the foreign students cross-subsidize the locals' education. There are large fixed costs to running a university and these students pay way above their marginal costs. So now the universities have fewer resources; hence cutting the newspaper funding etc. Second, the foreign students increase the schools' reputations and can collaborate with the faculty. Resear…

I wonder how many of these students come primarily for the subsequent job opportunities. If they were able to come for the education but not the subsequent OPT, would they still be willing to come? I've seen the tuition some of them paying like $50k/year and not sure how they can afford it unless they are hoping for big returns afterwards.

Very often, yes, they expect to return. For example Samsung was built to a large degree by Korean students returning to Korea from overseas programs, along with students from top local schools.

Re: As Flow of Foreign Students Wanes, U.S. Universities Feel the Sting

#99

Post by lsc »

janekm wrote: post #64
fellellor wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>go back home for a job Haha. Not really. American salaries, standards of living are among the highest/best in the planet. Plus an abundance of economic opportunities and relatively low discrimination compared to what one may face in other developed countries. These are the only factors which decide whether a family sends their kid to the US for higher ed or not. The degrees themselves aren't worth much at all. Unles…

You underestimate the value of an “overseas” degree in “developing” countries like China. A student who comes back to China with a US/UK degree will get preferential access to first-tier city resident permits, direct financial “housing” benefits from the city, a good job and faster career advancement and more besides. Some of those benefits are starting to get scaled back but it’s still a big advantage.

Sure, having a degree from a prestigious US school is a big advantage both here and in China. OPs point, I think, was that when it comes time to cash in that advantage, you will probably get more dollar-equivelents for it here than you would in China.

Of course, there are other considerations besides pay... but if you are trying to maximize pay, beating Silicon Valley or New York takes some doing.

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