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Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

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Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#91

Post by drvdevd »

crispyambulance wrote: post #37
rainbowmverse wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> (Separately: Don't get an undergraduate degree in business. What a worthless degree.) It's hard for people to learn things like this if they're afraid to talk to people who've gone down that road for fear that an honest expression of concern will be read as a critical lack of confidence. Just because we're yelled and beaten down for every expression of vulnerability growing up doesn't mean we have to perpetuate it…

The thing is you can never _really_ know, in advance, who is going to be empathetic about expressions of doubt and who is going to silently and permanently pass judgement upon it. Saying that stuff to peers has little risk especially if the peers know each other. But aetherson has a supervisor role here and he is at least being honest to us that such a remark will condition his future opinion of the blabber-mouth. Th…

> your boss is not your friend

I wholeheartedly agree. This is why you should be planning from day 1 on ways to make sure that your career is never dependent on a single individual’s or organization’s whims. They will be doing the same for you if they are smart.

This may sound ugly or cynical, but it’s a fact of life. Discretion is not just about what information you choose to reveal, it’s also about figuring out who is and isn’t “on your side” for the long run. I think we all fail at this at various points in our lives in some way or other.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#92

Post by misterbowfinger »

losteric wrote: post #64
misterbowfinger wrote: post #56

I really do think about this a lot, but I disagree with what the author proposes which is basically lying or deceiving others: > Authenticity is rare, but people performing authenticity is common, and being good at that performance can build a fortune. Not just authenticity, of course. Being able to pretend that you are furious is a trick that all great sales people use. And being able to create the illusion of a sin…

Yes, you're describing discretion and reiterating the author. They never suggested lying, merely being mindful of the circumstances when disclosing truth.

Added an excerpt from the post. It seems to be the opposite of what I'm saying.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#93

Post by greenrd »

codingdave wrote: post #54
aetherson wrote: post #13

I'm 40, and some of my coworkers are like 25. I'm about two management levels above the basic engineers, but we're a small company and everyone knows everyone. So I'm having lunch with some of the engineers, and one of them shares out of the blue that she regrets getting a computer science degree at her (good) college, and thinks she should've gone into business instead. And my immediate thought is, "For god's sake,…

> I'm someone who has a big say in your career prospects. No, you have a big say in their progression within one specific organization. Their career prospects overall are up to them. Frankly, I will quit a boss who acts like they own my career. (Separately: Your undergrad degree is what you make of it. There is no worthless education, only worthless application of that education into your life.)

Neither quitting in a fit of pique nor being fired look good in an interview. You can get away with a prima donna vibe - but only if you're really good - and sometimes not even then.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#94

Post by bootsz »

mulmen wrote: post #70
bootsz wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* > (Separately: Don't get an undergraduate degree in business. What a worthless degree.) Depends on the major. Accounting is a pretty legitimate degree with high-ish earning potential. Finance can be semi-legit, but most Wall Street jobs will just as easily take people with math or engineering degrees, often preferring them, and those degrees are way more versatile. Most others will not increase your career options.…

This is a toxic generalization and is unfair to anyone who put in the work to earn and then take advantage of a business degree. Are you honestly arguing that the entire discipline of marketing is worthless? What about project management? Process improvement? Human resources? It's flat wrong to say a business degree is "worthless". I have an undergraduate business degree and I have done very well with it. Your mistak…

Worthless is not a fair adjective, I have rephrased. But I still maintain that (outside of Accounting) I would not personally recommend a young person to get their undergraduate degree in business assuming it will be their sole undergraduate degree. Business is a great add-on to a specialty in something else, though. Thus the popularity of people going from science/engineering undergrad to an MBA later on.

What was your major, and what type of job/position did you take post-undergraduate?

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#95

Post by greenrd »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #79
mc32 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take, is work with what people offer in an official capacity and ignore the informal communication because many people who have similar doubts and inner thoughts simply don't express them. So basically, you'd be "punishing" someone for being honest and potentially promoting someone who is better at "manoeuvering" through the corp labyrinth.

There's two sides to this. From the boss's side, yes, punishing someone for honesty and promoting someone else for keeping their mouth shut on the same feelings is... suboptimal at best. From the worker's side, though, you don't know how smart the boss is. You don't know whether they are a jerk or a compassionate human being. Don't give them ammunition to use against you. (If you know your boss well, and you know the…

Don't ever trust your employer. I've learned this the hard way. It's 2017 - employers have no loyalty to us when the shit hits the fan - and we should have no loyalty to them. Stay if you like it, go if you don't - because there's probably something better out there.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#96

Post by watwut »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #55
ianai wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

34 never married no kids. Probably because the sentiment that someone doesn’t want to talk about family makes little sense to someone who’s life revolves around family. I give people blank stares when they talk football to me. I still try to relate. “Yeah my family chose all loser teams so the game lost me.” It’s not a great sentiment to hear for someone who loves football, but they get why I’m out of the discussion.…

I’m really turned off by football discussions. Thankfully tech isn’t very sports oriented or I would have problems at lunch.

At one point, I was pretty good at talking about soccer without ever seeing full game basically. I just repeated things other people said about same match or situation before. It seemed to be enough for casual discussion.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#97

Post by greenrd »

abiox wrote: post #84
greenrd wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See - even this woman who studied CS and got a job in the field ended up regretting it. And that's hardly an isolated example. I'm not saying all women who study CS regret it - far from it - but maybe James Damore was onto something?

it's not stated why they felt that way. i'm a guy and have thought that at times myself... for me, mostly because it seems (from this angle) that MBA types can get a great/better salary and have a FAR higher income/status ceiling, all while seemingly having a much easier life than engineers (grass is always greener :P).

I can't relate to that at all. Having to stay awake in even more boring meetings? Not being able to write code any more? Why would any programmer want that - unless they didn't actually enjoy their job?

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#99

Post by antisthenes »

sergers wrote: post #10
strictnein wrote: post #8

Honestly, this is a long article, but it's worth reading. It's written somewhat in response to another article by a millennial wanting her older colleagues to share more. Part of that is quoted in this article, including this passage: > Most of my new colleagues are at least 10 years my senior. Several of them have children, spouses, and mortgages. They are adults. Comparatively, I am a child. This really hits home,…

I am 31, moved into a new team 1.5 years ago. I am married 7 years, no kids... and have carried a hefty mortgage for 8 years. My other team mates are 38-55. Have kids, some even grandkids. While I can relate to alot of things, I can't stand their constant discussions about their kids and other family stuff... I just can't relate.(edit: not that I can't relate really, I just can't stand their constant distractions wit…

> I am the guy that goes to work, to work, so he can move on with his day after work as soon as possible.

If you were my coworker, I'd buy you a good lunch for this attitude.

More people could stand to share this approach.

Re: Discretion still matters – don’t hurt your career by sharing too much

#100

Post by greenrd »

jupiter90000 wrote: post #73
aetherson wrote: post #13

I'm 40, and some of my coworkers are like 25. I'm about two management levels above the basic engineers, but we're a small company and everyone knows everyone. So I'm having lunch with some of the engineers, and one of them shares out of the blue that she regrets getting a computer science degree at her (good) college, and thinks she should've gone into business instead. And my immediate thought is, "For god's sake,…

If they don't like computer science why do you think they'd want to advance a career related to computer science? Maybe speaking it out loud is helping them move towards fulfillment of what they'd really like. People are allowed to regret their career choices in front of people if they want to. It may have consequences, but that's their business.

The point is, these consequences can include everything up to and including termination, and a resultant difficulty in finding a subsequent job that pays as well. The young woman probably didn't think of that when she blurted that out. Or maybe she has a trust fund to fall back on, but the people around her may not, and she wasn't setting a good example.
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