Bitcoin Cash deals frozen as insider trading is probed • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin Cash deals frozen as insider trading is probed

#91

Post by heurist » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

sedtrader wrote: post #36

Regulations are the next logical step here. My best guess is that the red tape will at least dampen a lot of the mania around cryptocurricines and bring people back to reality.

I like the volatility :/ I made a couple hundred bucks of lint money yesterday playing the dip. Paid for my dogs' food for the month and a nice night out with my wife and her mother. Even though I have some skin in crypto, at this point I personally don't really care whether it keeps going up or crashes since I've already made back what I put in. But gaming volatility is a nice way to pass the evening...

Re: Bitcoin Cash deals frozen as insider trading is probed

#92

Post by mancerayder » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

cat199 wrote: post #23

CaptainZapp wrote: post #4

"Brian Armstrong responded that he had repeatedly warned his staff not to disclose its launch plans to family or friends or to trade in the digital asset themselves." So the whole staff new about this move, from which it is to be expected to move the market when published? Charitably put, that's naive.

Companies release products which will change the value of their stocks all the time.. this is exactly how such events are managed. What else could be done? lock up employees at work for a week while the market adjusts?

Well, if you work for a financial services company, even if you work in a back office sort of environment like IT -- hell, even if you're a secretary or a network engineer -- you're disallowed from having private brokerage accounts that aren't monitored by the firm.

I've worked in several investment firms and banks, and in all cases I had to use a special employee trading account, often at higher cost btw. What happens on such systems are brownouts / blackouts of transactions for certain stocks. It happened to me more than once in the past that, even if I already have a position, I was barred from even selling the security since it was on one of the several lists that they keep. Some of these lists are private, and they won't tell you when it's coming off the list. That's probably part of the protection against insider knowledge, too.

Like another commenter said, these coin outlets have a lot more to re-live in terms of wheels that have been invented long ago. Someone talked about currency itself, and Roman experiments, but similar lessons will need to be learned with regards to insider trading, exchanges, securities markets and so forth.

Re: Bitcoin Cash deals frozen as insider trading is probed

#93

Post by tlholaday » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

saalweachter wrote: post #75

down wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as you can't pay them with gold..

You know, I'm willing to bet if you showed up at your local tax collector's with a large enough chunk of gold, they'd work with you.

Yes, but if you showed up in Tax Court with a chunk of gold, you would risk being held in contempt.

Re: Bitcoin Cash deals frozen as insider trading is probed

#94

Post by mancerayder » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

FLUX-YOU wrote: post #17

>"I will not hesitate to terminate the employee immediately and take appropriate legal action." What possible legal action can he take? Breach of contract, maybe? There's no laws regarding cryptocurrency insider trading or manipulation as far as I know.

There are laws that impact securities.

And it's not a leap to suggest that these cryptocurrencies are going to be treated like securities by regulatory bodies. If the SEC argues successfully (which they seem to be leaning towards) that they're securities, a slew of regulations will begin to apply.

Simply put, you don't need a law that's SPECIFIC to cryptocurrencies in 2017.

Re: Bitcoin Cash deals frozen as insider trading is probed

#95

Post by mancerayder » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:38 PM UTC

pducks32 wrote: post #70

Did anyone not expect this? For example, I believe they may add Ripple next so I have made moves into Ripple knowing the price will spike if they add support. What's to prevent Coinbase employees to do the same?

There are specific timing issues, specific spikes. Broad-based knowledge doesn't cause super spikes of pump (and possibly dump).

Re: Bitcoin Cash deals frozen as insider trading is probed

#96

Post by blhack » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:40 PM UTC

Here's the stickiest thing about this entire thing to me: the name.

Roger Ver (one of the people behind bcash) has said repeatedly that he believes that his fork deserves the name "Bitcoin" and that it is the "real" bitcoin. It seems obvious that the intent here is to confuse people.

This, to me, seems like blatant fraud. It is concerning to me that coinbase would continue to allow this market confusion to build by listing this under the name "bitcoin cash". Things like this make me long for better regulation in this space.

Full disclosure: I say this as somebody who holds both bitcoin and bcash in nearly equal amounts. I mean to say that I don't really have a dog in this fight.

Re: Bitcoin Cash deals frozen as insider trading is probed

#97

Post by stygiansonic » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:43 PM UTC

notyourday wrote: post #45

thisisit wrote: post #11

When Coinbase launched Bitcoin Cash at 17:20 PST (01:20 BST) it was valued at about $3,500 (£2,612) per coin. At the time it suspended it, the company was quoting a price of about $8,500. Trade of Bitcoin Cash was frozen just four minutes after it began on the firm's Global Digital Asset Exchange (Gdax) and existing orders were cancelled. So the prices more than doubled in just 4 minutes. It might not even be a case…

Coinbase software does not do basic market unlock?! Is it another company that did not get anyone from Island or InstaNet or Brut?

As another comment pointed out, this is yet another example of cryptocurrency markets having to relearn what the financial industry has already learned.

In a way, it's interesting to see this sort of recapitulation take place.

Re: Bitcoin Cash deals frozen as insider trading is probed

#98

Post by kooshball » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:44 PM UTC

dustingetz wrote: post #79

I watched this happen live. There was a very obvious trading software malfunction. Here's what I watched happen. People could place orders before trading started. I was watching BCH/USD and BCH/BTC which had a fixed price, $3100 USD and 3.00 BTC respectively. BCH/USD had a huge amount of buy pressure (people buying BCH with cash); BCH/BTC had a huge amount of sell pressure (people dumping the airdrop). Only BCH/USD w…

Is there any evidence they're going to rewind or refund the transactions?

Re: Bitcoin Cash deals frozen as insider trading is probed

#99

Post by kbwt » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:45 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #96

Here's the stickiest thing about this entire thing to me: the name. Roger Ver (one of the people behind bcash) has said repeatedly that he believes that his fork deserves the name "Bitcoin" and that it is the "real" bitcoin. It seems obvious that the intent here is to confuse people. This, to me, seems like blatant fraud. It is concerning to me that coinbase would continue to allow this market confusion to build by l…

He's not entirely wrong though. What defines the real Bitcoin: The network's hash rate? The developers behind the Qt wallet? Adoption/usage?

Re: Bitcoin Cash deals frozen as insider trading is probed

#100

Post by dustingetz » Wed, Dec 20, 2017, 5:46 PM UTC

kooshball wrote: post #98

dustingetz wrote: post #79

I watched this happen live. There was a very obvious trading software malfunction. Here's what I watched happen. People could place orders before trading started. I was watching BCH/USD and BCH/BTC which had a fixed price, $3100 USD and 3.00 BTC respectively. BCH/USD had a huge amount of buy pressure (people buying BCH with cash); BCH/BTC had a huge amount of sell pressure (people dumping the airdrop). Only BCH/USD w…

Is there any evidence they're going to rewind or refund the transactions?

No direct evidence, this is just my speculation maybe i shouldn't have

Indirect evidence is them erasing this blip from their tickers

Obviously also there are some really angry customers who lost large amounts of cash