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Elite colleges are making it easy for conservatives to dislike them

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Re: Elite colleges are making it easy for conservatives to dislike them

#91

Post by dsfyu404ed »

youdontknowtho wrote: post #9
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #3

As the American right-wing moves further right and further way from participating in consensus reality, it should be no surprise they are increasingly less welcome in spaces dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge. If you reject not only the politics of your opponents, but the value of fact itself, why should they listen to or accommodate you? https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/2/16588964/a...

I know. There's been an organized project on the right to undermine universities since the 60's. Any accommodation made to them is a small victory.

The programs you're talking about have more to do with the FBI than any particular party.

Edit: they were in place during Johnson's administration

Re: Elite colleges are making it easy for conservatives to dislike them

#92

Post by mmierz »

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #87
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #3

As the American right-wing moves further right and further way from participating in consensus reality, it should be no surprise they are increasingly less welcome in spaces dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge. If you reject not only the politics of your opponents, but the value of fact itself, why should they listen to or accommodate you? https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/2/16588964/a...

> +As the American right-wing moves further right and further way from participating in consensus reality, it should be no surprise they are increasingly less welcome in spaces dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge. The two clauses in this sentence are contradictory. You are claiming that conservatives are stupid because they reject the herd mentality. Think about that.

Did you read the article in the post you're replying to? I don't think "herd mentality" is what the US far-right rejects.

Re: Elite colleges are making it easy for conservatives to dislike them

#93

Post by gizmo686 »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #73
confuseddesi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it is the American right-wing moving further right, but I am more inclined to believe the American left is moving farther left: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/why-ame... Take for example this speech by Bill Clinton in 1995: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4654597/bill-clinton-illegal-... : "That's why our administration has moved aggressively to secure our borders more by hiring a record…

The Clintons are famous for a strategy called "triangulation" where they move as far to the right as necessary to get enough votes to win an election. With a voting base, and voting system that skews as far right as America's that leads to them taking some right-wing positions. I've always thought this was a clever strategy, but apparently enough people live in their own social bubbles that many progressive types don…

The problem is that this is a short term strategy. You might win this election, but move the overton window to the right.

The other problem is the risk of alienating your base.

Re: Elite colleges are making it easy for conservatives to dislike them

#94

Post by ZoeZoeBee »

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #78
ZoeZoeBee wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious which views of Shapiro's do you believe are extreme? Are you a person who believes gender is merely a social construct whereby the genetics of a person hold no bearing on their attributes?

He's cited a solution to the divide between Isreal and Palenstine as being >"The Jews don't realize that expelling a hostile population is a commonly used and generally effective way of preventing violent entanglements...." That's decently non-moderate if not extreme as far as that debate goes. Nice strawman with the gender thing. The nature v nurture debate will continue but the fatalist "genetics trump all" sort of…

So short of not believing in a two state solution, with historical relevancy to back his belief, you've got nothing?

>I will never vote for Donald Trump because I stand with certain principles. I stand with small government and free markets and religious freedom and personal responsibility. Donald Trump stands against all of these things. He stands for Planned Parenthood and trade restrictions and targeting of political enemies and an anti-morality foreign policy and government domination of religion and nastiness toward women and tacit appeals to racism and unbounded personal power. I stand with the Constitution of theUnited States, and its embedded protection of my God-given rights through governmental checks and balances. Donald Trump does not. I stand with conservatism. Donald Trump stands against it. I stand with #NeverTrump. ---Ben Shapiro

FYI Scientific evidence does not support your belief on the side of nature vs nurture

Re: Elite colleges are making it easy for conservatives to dislike them

#95

Post by juliangoldsmith »

chowchowchow wrote: post #84
juliangoldsmith wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If something being suspicious is cause to believe it, then we can believe that the Clintons had something to do with the large number of politically convenient accidents and suicides surrounding them. Objective reality doesn't seem to be enough to cast a shadow on the Clintons. How many people on the left know much about the scandal surrounding the Uranium One deal that Hillary Clinton approved, after taking large am…

> If something being suspicious is cause to believe it, That's not what I said at all, I was talking about the reality of the suspicious acts, not the reality of their implications. But the immediate refocus to the Clintons, when nobody was talking about them, is plenty illuminating about where this will go if we keep discussing.

I don't think discussing President Trump's main political opponent during the election is too large of a jump.

Are the Clintons off-limits, or do you just not want to consider the possibility that they might be up to no good?

Re: Elite colleges are making it easy for conservatives to dislike them

#96

Post by juliangoldsmith »

tensor wrote: post #86
juliangoldsmith wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If something being suspicious is cause to believe it, then we can believe that the Clintons had something to do with the large number of politically convenient accidents and suicides surrounding them. Objective reality doesn't seem to be enough to cast a shadow on the Clintons. How many people on the left know much about the scandal surrounding the Uranium One deal that Hillary Clinton approved, after taking large am…

It's suspicious enough for a formal investigation. Hopefully the investigation is allowed to run it's course so that we can learn what happened. At this point you can neither say there is no connection nor that there is one. That there are a very large number of very suspicious circumstances is fact. It also appears to be fact that Russia did try to meddle in the election. I don't see any problems with these claims.

A formal investigation isn't unreasonable. The issue is that the investigator (Robert Mueller) has ties to President Trump's political opponents (the Clintons, through James Comey).

As far as Russia meddling in the election, I don't doubt that. What I would dispute is the usual media narrative, that Russia was responsible for releasing the emails from the DNC.

Re: Elite colleges are making it easy for conservatives to dislike them

#97

Post by vannevar »

creaghpatr wrote: post #70
vannevar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can, but the notion that ignorance can triumph by force is not the fault of the universities. What is their alternative? To pander to people who believe that Islamic terrorists are a greater threat to them than the ladder in their garage, that being gay is a conscious moral choice, and that tax cuts stimulate economic growth? Conservative backlash against science and mathematics is a consequence of the increasing…

>To pander to people who believe that Islamic terrorists are a greater threat to them than the ladder in their garage A poor straw man argument, and it's telling that you need untruthful hyperbole to make your point.

In what sense is it a straw man argument? Republicans favor spending enormous amounts of money fighting Islamic terrorists, while ignoring much more probable threats. That is not hyperbole, it is sad truth.

Re: Elite colleges are making it easy for conservatives to dislike them

#98

Post by namlem »

confuseddesi wrote: post #12
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #3

As the American right-wing moves further right and further way from participating in consensus reality, it should be no surprise they are increasingly less welcome in spaces dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge. If you reject not only the politics of your opponents, but the value of fact itself, why should they listen to or accommodate you? https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/2/16588964/a...

Perhaps it is the American right-wing moving further right, but I am more inclined to believe the American left is moving farther left: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/why-ame... Take for example this speech by Bill Clinton in 1995: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4654597/bill-clinton-illegal-... : "That's why our administration has moved aggressively to secure our borders more by hiring a record…

Bill Clinton was fairly right wing for a Democrat. He was certainly to the right of Carter and Johnson on many issues.

Re: Elite colleges are making it easy for conservatives to dislike them

#99

Post by AndrewDucker »

smallnamespace wrote: post #10

Just as an anecdote, met a recent state school grad who said he arrived on campus as a dyed-in-the-wool liberal, tried to get into campus activism, and his fellow activists and teachers scared him so much that he's now not sure where he stands politically. Obviously I can't verify this, but for example he had a professor who actively taught that nations are a completely artificial social construct, and as such all im…

What else could nations be other than an artificial construct.

I'm baffled as to what else they could be.

Re: Elite colleges are making it easy for conservatives to dislike them

#100

Post by dragonwriter »

mikeash wrote: post #83
confuseddesi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps it is the American right-wing moving further right, but I am more inclined to believe the American left is moving farther left: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/why-ame... Take for example this speech by Bill Clinton in 1995: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4654597/bill-clinton-illegal-... : "That's why our administration has moved aggressively to secure our borders more by hiring a record…

In the 90s, the Democrats were trying to enact a single-payer health care system, and the Republican response to it was similar to what we now know as the ACA. Now, the Democrats fight for the Republican plan and the Republicans want to do away with it altogether. Democrats in the late 60s wanted a national gun registry and ban handguns for anyone who can't demonstrate a need, with household self-protection not consi…

> In the 90s, the Democrats were trying to enact a single-payer health care system

Well, there was grassroots pressure for that and majority support in public polling, but what actually got pushed by the Clinton White House was very much not single-payer.

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