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The Great College Loan Swindle

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Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#91

Post by ejnulls »

leetcrew wrote: post #88
touchofevil wrote: post #84

It seems like the root problem is that students cannot declare bankruptcy on student loans. If they could do that then lenders would adjust for risk accordingly which would lower the availability of loans, which would in turn drive tuition down. I know there's an argument that students will just declare bankruptcy after graduating, but if that's the case then the solution would be to make bankruptcy less appealing vi…

if students could declare bankruptcy there would probably be no student loans. there are already very few private loans available to students without substantial credit history or a cosigner. how could the numbers possibly work out? to graduate in four years from a state university (paying in-state tuition) costs about $44k. a typical college freshman has close to zero assets and no credit. if they have any income, i…

You used to be able to discharge student loans through bankruptcy and guess what?? The sky didn't fall down.

However, that was also when a year of college could be paid for by a minimum-wage summer job. Now it's egregiously expensive AND they've got you by the balls.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#92

Post by rayiner »

Maarten88 wrote: post #58

I am always amazed at the level of acceptance for these types of injustice there is in the US. Even here, most discussion is about the economics of college degrees, and how to deal with it on an individual level. While the problem, it seems to me, is entirely one of political choice and justice, and the current situation seems very unfair. Young people from poorer backgrounds seem to be destined for slavery for a lar…

> I am always amazed at the level of acceptance for these types of injustice there is in the US. Even here, most discussion is about the economics of college degrees, and how to deal with it on an individual level.

You gotta give Americans a bit more credit than that. American attitudes are cultivated in a very different context. Yes, in a place like Germany, the government mostly pays for your school. The flip side is a lot more government control over peoples’ choices to make the system sustainable. We had an au pair from Germany. Very bright young woman, but a late bloomer academically. She was put into a non-college track in high school, and doesn’t have much in the way of other options in Germany (although, she had a white collar office job because those are attainable without college).

In the US, the government doesn’t pay, but also doesn’t restrict who can go to college, impose quotas on what degrees colleges can grant, etc. If people want to take on a bunch of debt, it’s their choice and they can deal with the consequences.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#93

Post by nickpeterson »

humanrebar wrote: post #59
nickpeterson wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with this. I really think most people are better off being hired and trained on-site for their careers. Students who show tremendous promise make more sense to attend a university, and that should just be federally funded.

> ...that should just be federally funded. Why?

If we reduce college attendance drastically, it may be necessary to maintain high end (cutting edge) universities. Otherwise only those with promise and wealth could go.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#94

Post by RhysU »

Clubber wrote: post #83
Maarten88 wrote: post #58

I am always amazed at the level of acceptance for these types of injustice there is in the US. Even here, most discussion is about the economics of college degrees, and how to deal with it on an individual level. While the problem, it seems to me, is entirely one of political choice and justice, and the current situation seems very unfair. Young people from poorer backgrounds seem to be destined for slavery for a lar…

My question is why hasn't he been able to land a full time teaching job in ~14 years? It seems like a full time teaching job would alleviate a lot of that pressure, but the article doesn't seem to mention it. I understand teachers probably make the lowest salaries in any degree required field, but they can keep their heads above water if they are fully employed. Many family members are teachers, and it's noble but th…

Or, teaching not panning out for him, another job of comparable pay to public school teachers.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#95

Post by StudentStuff »

ejnulls wrote: post #91
leetcrew wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if students could declare bankruptcy there would probably be no student loans. there are already very few private loans available to students without substantial credit history or a cosigner. how could the numbers possibly work out? to graduate in four years from a state university (paying in-state tuition) costs about $44k. a typical college freshman has close to zero assets and no credit. if they have any income, i…

You used to be able to discharge student loans through bankruptcy and guess what?? The sky didn't fall down. However, that was also when a year of college could be paid for by a minimum-wage summer job. Now it's egregiously expensive AND they've got you by the balls.

Plus, remember that all these banks "offering" student loans aren't actually financing them, that is the domain of the federal government.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#96

Post by RhysU »

Antimachides wrote: post #67
Overtonwindow wrote: post #15

Most scorn of universities and loan programs never seem to address a serious problem: Students taking on debt to fund degrees with little market value, or few job prospects. Racking up $100k to get an interdisciplinary degree in women and gender studies might sound awesome, but not at the cost of a school like NYU.[0] I think schools should be required to press upon students prior to taking out these loans honest and…

I agree students shouldn't be taking on the loans they do for worthless degrees but I'd like to add that 17/18 years old is just not old enough to (1) decide what you want to do for the rest of your life and (2) begin taking dozens of thousands of $ in bankruptcy-immune loans to pay for it. There's also the issue of the cost of college being an artificial grossly expensive racket. If the opportunity for moneyed inter…

American society indeed says 18-year-old adults can legally do these things. Are you advocating for 21 being again the age of formal adulthood?

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#97

Post by RhysU »

sanderjd wrote: post #54
wolfgke wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of them can't fathom the idea of graduating from college and then not being able to find a job that pays a living wage. It is not only about finding a job (I believe with a "sensible" degree you will always find one), but about finding a job that pays well enough so that beside the costs of living (which are enormous in some regions) also the college debts can be paid back in a reasonable time.

There is no workable definition of "sensible" here. A number of my friends graduated with journalism degrees in 2007. They couldn't find jobs in journalism. This probably seems obvious to you now, that journalism is not a "sensible" degree, but in 2002-2004 when we were choosing schools and degrees, every major city had two or more competing newspapers with healthy entry level hiring. The world changed. That happens.…

This change in the economy is why college should be about education and not vocation.

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#98

Post by SOLAR_FIELDS »

touchofevil wrote: post #84

It seems like the root problem is that students cannot declare bankruptcy on student loans. If they could do that then lenders would adjust for risk accordingly which would lower the availability of loans, which would in turn drive tuition down. I know there's an argument that students will just declare bankruptcy after graduating, but if that's the case then the solution would be to make bankruptcy less appealing vi…

Alternate suggestion: Force all endowment gains from investments to be applied towards lowering student tuition until tuition is free, then the school can happily invest to their heart’s content.

It could still probably be gamed to some extent but would at least prevent the somewhat disgusting situation of stacking tens of millions yearly into endowment funds while gutting the futures of students by raising tuition

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#99

Post by humanrebar »

nickpeterson wrote: post #93
humanrebar wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...that should just be federally funded. Why?

If we reduce college attendance drastically, it may be necessary to maintain high end (cutting edge) universities. Otherwise only those with promise and wealth could go.

Sure. But why federally funded?

Re: The Great College Loan Swindle

#100

Post by jogjayr »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #15

Most scorn of universities and loan programs never seem to address a serious problem: Students taking on debt to fund degrees with little market value, or few job prospects. Racking up $100k to get an interdisciplinary degree in women and gender studies might sound awesome, but not at the cost of a school like NYU.[0] I think schools should be required to press upon students prior to taking out these loans honest and…

> I think schools should be required to press upon students prior to taking out these loans honest and factual statistics about their future job prospects, needs for advanced education, and the average graduates ability to pay back the loan.

I think schools should be required to justify why imparting a gender studies education costs $100k. Apart from professor salaries (maybe $80k/yr for a public uni in a a major metro area) and classrooms/whiteboard markers/projectors (already paid for, but figure equivalent of $15k/year) what exactly is that money going toward?

We in industry can also help by not valuing the university "name" so highly, and saying so loudly and often. If the job market was kinder to applicants from institutions of lesser-renown, we'd have fewer students willing to go into crazy debt to get into a prestigious school. I acknowledge that software is actually pretty good about this but other industries are not.

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