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Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

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Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#91

Post by pimeys »

This autumn I finally needed to buy a new laptop and spent some time testing and figuring out which keyboard I like the most. The funny thing was that the only seriously decent laptop keyboard is in a model that has a limited release and will probably sell out in the coming weeks: The ThinkPad 25th anniversary edition.

How can it be that to get a seriously good keyboard for programming, I need to get a novelty laptop and get it fast until it sells out. If you have a chance to test it somewhere and can take a hit with a FHD panel, this is definitely a fast and robust laptop.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#92

Post by davrosthedalek »

pudo wrote: post #14

This, so much. Plus, call me clumsy, but the number of times I have accidentally triggered one of the magic bar buttons is beyond count. In everyday use, it often feels like my computer just randomly mutes system audio or locks the display (I had to get rid of the Siri button, it's incredibly annoying). All of that besides the fact that you cannot really use VIM any more because the ESC button is gone...

The most annoying thing about Siri is that another key press does not close that window again. It's the first thin I removed from the touch bar.

The number of times I actually wanted to change the terminal colors or open a man page with the touchbar is exactly zero. I press them often enough by accident that I am annoyed.

The touchbar is a solution looking for a problem. Can't find one. If you want reconfigurable keys, why not put a small display in each of them? That would at least be a possible benefit without these fundamental drawbacks.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#93

Post by antoinevg »

When I got my first MacBookPro in 2009 I was sold instantly.

Not because of the specs, I had given up a Dell costing a quarter of the price with higher resolution display, more memory, a nicer keyboard and faster CPU.

I was sold because, unlike any of the other Windows & Linux computers I owned at the time, it did not make me angry when I used it.

I miss _that_ MacBookPro.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#94

Post by TrickyRick »

micaksica wrote: post #44
saurik wrote: post #21

Based on the title I assumed that this person was going to be complaining about joint damage due to the low key travel. This keyboard on my 12" MacBook is so bad that between having to get the top case replaced to fix broken keys (when as stated in the article, careful blowing didn't work and trying to replace the keys caused them to break) and my fingers feeing like they have aged many years from the poor ergonomics…

Your story resonated with me because I had the same experiences with a 12” MacBook. While I can’t really use you as an example, since you kind of need a Mac for a lot of the work you do specifically, I’ve heard the same complaints about Apple hardware from other long-time Mac users that don’t actually need to have a Mac. I am curious how many of those of us that don’t need macOS day to day have voted with their walle…

For all it's faults, the MacBook Pro is still the best computer for what I do, as someone who doesn't have to use a Mac. macOS being a big factor in favor of it.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#95

Post by nfoz »

csydas wrote: post #35
isatty wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing about this makes much sense - regardless of which generation macbook you're using hitting the power button accidentally will not turn it off (you can try it right now). Did your interviewee keep pressing on it for like 10 seconds?

Indeed, I'm not even sure that aside from intentionally editing the PowerManagement.plist that you can do this. On my Macbook Air, you have to hold in the power button for a short period to produce the Sleep/Restert/Shutdown pop-up, and the default is cancel, I believe. Apple's own page on the matter says it requires a 1.5 second hold to produce. [0] I appreciate your over-all sentiment that when the default behavior…

Thanks. Updated, and probably this thread is off-topic enough that I should just delete it.

In my head I had not distinguished between "shutdown" and "sleep", nor decide that the hardware was less to blame than the software. Those details matter, sorry for any confusion.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#96

Post by kk_cz »

JSONwebtoken wrote: post #40
kn0where wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A twist on the old if-a-tree-falls-in-the-forest riddle: If a hidden gesture exists but nobody knows it, does it really exist?

How is it a hidden gesture? It's literally shown in every marketing video and advertisement since demo day.

And yet somehow you still have someone (who I assume is a poweruser) who doesn't know about its existence.

But to answer your question: It's hidden because it doesn't have a graphic representation on the device itself. Nothing on the volume button indicates that it's somehow a hidden slider.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#97

Post by TrickyRick »

aluhut wrote: post #58
threeseed wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you realise how ridiculous you sound ? You're blaming a Mac for Windows OS behaviour. On Mac OS pressing the power button does nothing, it takes seconds to come back from sleep and it never drops VPN unless you are going to sleep for hours.

As I understood it the part where you hit the power button when you don't want is the root of the problem. The horrible Mac keyboard is accidentally also the topic here.

If we're talking about the newest line of MacBooks, how does one accidentally press the power button? Maybe it's just my computer but it takes quite a bit of power to accentuate it compared to the other keys.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#99

Post by suresk »

threeseed wrote: post #37
suresk wrote: post #18

The new MBPs are such a mixed bag for me.. I got one at work, while I still use a 2012 MBP, and I go back and forth on some things.... 1) New keyboard took a while to get used to, and it does seem like they are a little finicky. After a while, I've gotten used to the feel of it and actually prefer it for the most part. The arrow keys are really hard to use, though.. I do hate that it is such an expensive/involved thi…

Use BetterTouchTool for the Touch Bar. It allows you to customise it for each application and assign your own buttons based on menu items, scripts etc. For development it is amazing. I have dedicated buttons for Build, Run, Debug, Stop, Step Into and Step Over. For terminal I can adjust terminal profiles with one button. Also blame Intel more than Apple for performance issues.

Fair point, re: Intel.

I will have to check out that tool, sounds like it could be useful.

I guess, though, this highlights part of why it feels so gimmicky. I, like a lot of people using MacBook Pros, spend about 60% of my time on my work laptop docked with external monitors, keyboard, and mouse. Since there are no external keyboards with a TouchBar available, I now have two very different experiences when I'm docked vs undocked.

I'm sure I could use something to create virtual function keys and get back the original functionality and have a roughly similar experience to when I'm using an external keyboard, but then I'm paying extra money for that hardware and losing tactile feedback.

Re: Problems with MacBook butterfly switch keyboards

#100

Post by williamstein »

saurik wrote: post #21

Based on the title I assumed that this person was going to be complaining about joint damage due to the low key travel. This keyboard on my 12" MacBook is so bad that between having to get the top case replaced to fix broken keys (when as stated in the article, careful blowing didn't work and trying to replace the keys caused them to break) and my fingers feeing like they have aged many years from the poor ergonomics…

I also have a second gen 12" Macbook. It has by far the worst and most dangerous (!) keyboard I've ever used on a laptop. I loved the form factor and tried as hard I could for months (!) to find a way to type on those keys without it significantly hurting my hands but failed. I now also always use a physical mechanical external keyboard instead. The keyboard surprisingly turns out to probably be the biggest drawback of that computer (I didn't expect the keyboard of all things to be such a big problem on a mac).

I've been a loyal mac laptop user for over a decade, but definitely my next laptop purchase won't be a mac...

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