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Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

nytimes.com

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Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#91

Post by macspoofing »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #88
nthompson wrote: post #57

When wolves got reintroduced to Idaho, a few hillbillies went up into the primitive area and stole some pups, and they circulated around as pets. My buddy had one, and it scared the shit out of me. It was 130lbs of killing machine. They could tell it to kill anything, and it would do it. Their neighbor's dog had been biting them, so it was the first to go. Then they'd set it on foxes, which is could run down with eas…

Your story clearly indicates this has nothing to do with it being a wolf. It happened to have a body that was capable of killing, yes. But the owner picked it up and slammed it whenever it misbehaved, and the owner actively encouraged it to kill things. If your parents did that, you would do the same thing. You see this kind of prejudice against pitbulls too. They're some of the sweetest dogs.

>Your story clearly indicates this has nothing to do with it being a wolf

How do you figure that? The entire article basically talked about how you can never domesticate a wolf.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#92

Post by tzs »

bambax wrote: post #6

> something is deeply different in dog genes, or in how and when those genes become active, and scientists are trying to determine exactly what it is Darwin famously observed in the first chapter of On the Origin of Species that not one of our domestic animals can be named which has not in some country drooping ears . Darwin himself attributed it to "muscle misuse", the rationale being that domestic animals are not f…

> The bizarre (and still running) experiment of Dmitry Belyaev who has been raising wild silver foxes [...]

What do you find bizarre about it?

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#93

Post by jtmcmc »

nthompson wrote: post #57

When wolves got reintroduced to Idaho, a few hillbillies went up into the primitive area and stole some pups, and they circulated around as pets. My buddy had one, and it scared the shit out of me. It was 130lbs of killing machine. They could tell it to kill anything, and it would do it. Their neighbor's dog had been biting them, so it was the first to go. Then they'd set it on foxes, which is could run down with eas…

this is awful. that person was absolutely reckless and horrible.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#94

Post by partiallypro »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #82
partiallypro wrote: post #74

I wonder if wolves have been raised in tandem with dogs, which some zoos do with their tour animals have had any success. Or if the natural inclination of the wolf is to prove alpha status, though perhaps it would be less so if they were the opposite sex and you let the dog initiate human contact.

The alpha thing has been soundly disproven.

In some animal groups, yes (like humans); but as far as I know, not in wolves. There may be some challenging views, but it is far from disproven entirely. Some of the anecdotes people have shared with "tame" wolves seem to back the idea of a pecking order.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#95

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

Animats wrote: post #87
derefr wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're all "docile"; they'll accept training and won't bite or attack without serious provocation. I guess I'm using "docility" a bit differently. There are two somewhat different commonly-used meanings, and it'd be helpful if they were different words: • the animals everyone tends to commonly use the word "domesticated" for, which usually have specifically eusocial behaviours, like coming and laying down beside a…

There are lots of books about horse behavior. It's been studied pretty throughly. Most horses are willing to socialize with humans. They're not submissive in the way that dogs are, though. Once you understand some horse body language (see "Talking with Horses", by Henry Blake) they're much more willing to socialize. Horses are flight animals, herbivores, and herd animals, and their behavior comes from that. Dogs are…

> Dogs are pack animals and carnivores.

I was of the understanding dogs, our friends, are omnivores.

From wikipedia:

Unlike obligate carnivores, dogs can adapt to a wide-ranging diet, and are not dependent on meat-specific protein nor a very high level of protein in order to fulfil their basic dietary requirements. Dogs will healthily digest a variety of foods, including vegetables and grains, and can consume a large proportion of these in their diet, however all-meat diets are not recommended for dogs due to their lack of calcium and iron.[14] Comparing dogs and wolves, dogs have adaptations in genes involved in starch digestion that contribute to an increased ability to thrive on a starch-rich diet.[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#96

Post by Animats »

larkeith wrote: post #84
Animats wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not one of our domestic animals can be named which has not in some country drooping ears. Neither cats nor horses have drooping ears, except for ones that have serious birth defects or mutations.

Scottish Folds?

Mutation, followed by a silly/stupid breeding program.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#97

Post by KGIII »

j2bax wrote: post #89
KGIII wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Golden. I always have a Golden. He's a working dog and he was trained by the Golden I had before, who was trained by the Golden I had before, etc. When they start to get old and hip trouble is setting in, I get a new one and the old one teaches the puppy. I've done this for years, though my first weren't working dogs. It's always a Golden and only a Golden. I've never had any other type of dog. It's neat to…

How old have your Golden’s typically lived? I’ve got a almost 11 year old (got her at 6 weeks) that doesn’t show any signs of giving up yet. My only complaint with her is that she has been food aggressive and she’s not a big fan of small children. We’ve never had her bite anyone but she shows her teeth sometimes. I never thought a Golden could exhibit wolf like expressions... all that said I love this dog more than j…

10 to 12 years.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#98

Post by tzs »

arkades wrote: post #64
learnstats2 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems more likely to me that this has a human psychological cause, not a genetic cause. I suggest that - if humans associate e.g. droopy ears with being more friendly, this creates a positive feedback loop whereby those animals with droopy ears receive more positive interactions, show less fear and are modestly more likely to be selected by Belyaev's research for breeding, all other things being equal. Human bias…

They're also dealing with a genetic bottleneck. As they repeatedly select for a given trait, they can inadvertently select for traits that are correlated /in their original sample population/, which may not be correlated universally. That is, with a small enough sample, if it just so happened the nicest cubs had (some traits) in common, you can easily end up exaggerating those traits in later generations. The Russian…

Similar traits show up when other species are domesticated.

It's been theorized that this has to do with the neural crest, which is an embryonic structure that the adrenal medulla develops out of. The adrenal medulla produces hormones involved in stress and fear, and so an animal with a less active adrenal medulla would probably be more amenable to domestication.

Several other things also develop out of the embryonic crest, so it could be that which ties together domestication and those various other traits that seem to go with it across many species.

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#99

Post by [deleted] »

macspoofing wrote: post #91
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your story clearly indicates this has nothing to do with it being a wolf. It happened to have a body that was capable of killing, yes. But the owner picked it up and slammed it whenever it misbehaved, and the owner actively encouraged it to kill things. If your parents did that, you would do the same thing. You see this kind of prejudice against pitbulls too. They're some of the sweetest dogs.

>Your story clearly indicates this has nothing to do with it being a wolf How do you figure that? The entire article basically talked about how you can never domesticate a wolf.

[deleted]

Re: Wolf Puppies Are Adorable, Then Comes the Call of the Wild

#100

Post by [deleted] »

macspoofing wrote: post #91
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your story clearly indicates this has nothing to do with it being a wolf. It happened to have a body that was capable of killing, yes. But the owner picked it up and slammed it whenever it misbehaved, and the owner actively encouraged it to kill things. If your parents did that, you would do the same thing. You see this kind of prejudice against pitbulls too. They're some of the sweetest dogs.

>Your story clearly indicates this has nothing to do with it being a wolf How do you figure that? The entire article basically talked about how you can never domesticate a wolf.

[deleted]
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