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Bubble – Visual Programming

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Re: Bubble – Visual Programming

#91

Post by teyc »

wruza wrote: post #84
brucephillips wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "easy UI" you mean a WYSIWYG UI editor, those exist for most serious development of applications, such as for Windows, iOS, and Android, though they still aren't the norm in web for some reason. But if by "easy UI" you mean the visual programming language, or the graphical DDL, then I'm skeptical it has any value to programmers. No programmer I know would want to use a visual programming language at all, even w…

Actually, the most popular (if not the only viable) business platform in my country has GUI for heavily modified / application-server backed SQL dialect and everyone is using it, rarely going down to the source to write a complex logical expression or copy things if it seems faster than clicking them. Not that more than half the logic goes into these queries, but it is definitely used. That is possible because the sc…

Sounds like something I’d like to use for situational apps. What is it called ?

Re: Bubble – Visual Programming

#92

Post by jacami »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #26

Professional programmers often scoff at these kinds of tools, a lot of time for good reason. However I believe that with the right approach such a system could also speed development for a lot of serious and complex development efforts. It would have to use standard pro level libraries and tools underneath, with the easy UI being essentially and abstraction over of subset of the functionality. This would allow it to…

Like the idea. Still how would this mix with custom components? I mean, one could do so by having some sort of actions layer and linking that to components which may be build from some more elemental ones but the exact look and feel will be dictated by the library of elemental components available.

Re: Bubble – Visual Programming

#93

Post by dkersten »

ecesena wrote: post #21
keithnz wrote: post #14

hmmmm, "No Credit Card Required" you can sign in with Github! Just give us access to all your private repositories! Ummm, no. That's just rude.

I see signup with email+password, or google, or github. Did I miss something? It seems perfectly legit, there are alternatives, and github seems much more appropriate than facebook here. Personally, I very much prefer people to ask me for a social, rather than storing my password.

Since I use a randomly generated password stored in a password manager, I'd much rather they store my single-site-use random password.

Re: Bubble – Visual Programming

#94

Post by xaedes »

brucephillips wrote: post #32
WhitneyLand wrote: post #26

Professional programmers often scoff at these kinds of tools, a lot of time for good reason. However I believe that with the right approach such a system could also speed development for a lot of serious and complex development efforts. It would have to use standard pro level libraries and tools underneath, with the easy UI being essentially and abstraction over of subset of the functionality. This would allow it to…

If by "easy UI" you mean a WYSIWYG UI editor, those exist for most serious development of applications, such as for Windows, iOS, and Android, though they still aren't the norm in web for some reason. But if by "easy UI" you mean the visual programming language, or the graphical DDL, then I'm skeptical it has any value to programmers. No programmer I know would want to use a visual programming language at all, even w…

I use visual programming all the time. On my whiteboard. The task to convert that into code is trivial. Only manual labour.

If I could stay on the whiteboard with my pen and compile parts of my program from there, that would be awesome.

Btw: I tried some "Smart" Whiteboards, but they are all just bad quality. Real whiteboards are still superior for whatever you do with whiteboarsd.

Re: Bubble – Visual Programming

#95

Post by imnotlost »

foopod wrote: post #47
brucephillips wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "easy UI" you mean a WYSIWYG UI editor, those exist for most serious development of applications, such as for Windows, iOS, and Android, though they still aren't the norm in web for some reason. But if by "easy UI" you mean the visual programming language, or the graphical DDL, then I'm skeptical it has any value to programmers. No programmer I know would want to use a visual programming language at all, even w…

> No programmer I know would want to use a visual programming language at all, even with an option to fall into a full text-based programming language. This is something that a lot of game and graphics programmers are doing already. UE4 uses Blueprints[0] now, with the ability for programmers to drop into C++ for more control. I also think that having multiple ways to interact with programming languages is awesome fr…

Blueprint sucks balls, it's super slow at runtime, it's slow to create logic, and it makes your game code unmaintainable and almost impossible to reason about. Not to mention you can't diff changes.

PlayMaker for Unity has the same problems.

Friends don't let friends use tools like that.

Re: Bubble – Visual Programming

#96

Post by grandchild »

foopod wrote: post #47
brucephillips wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "easy UI" you mean a WYSIWYG UI editor, those exist for most serious development of applications, such as for Windows, iOS, and Android, though they still aren't the norm in web for some reason. But if by "easy UI" you mean the visual programming language, or the graphical DDL, then I'm skeptical it has any value to programmers. No programmer I know would want to use a visual programming language at all, even w…

> No programmer I know would want to use a visual programming language at all, even with an option to fall into a full text-based programming language. This is something that a lot of game and graphics programmers are doing already. UE4 uses Blueprints[0] now, with the ability for programmers to drop into C++ for more control. I also think that having multiple ways to interact with programming languages is awesome fr…

> No programmer I know would want to use a visual programming language at all, even with an option to fall into a full text-based programming language.

I started with C and then turned to VVVV [0] for a while (now using Python). VVVV enabled me to do a lot of media-related things, that I would have had a hard time doing otherwise. It still has a special place in my heart :)

[0] http://vvvv.org

Re: Bubble – Visual Programming

#97

Post by wruza »

teyc wrote: post #91
wruza wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, the most popular (if not the only viable) business platform in my country has GUI for heavily modified / application-server backed SQL dialect and everyone is using it, rarely going down to the source to write a complex logical expression or copy things if it seems faster than clicking them. Not that more than half the logic goes into these queries, but it is definitely used. That is possible because the sc…

Sounds like something I’d like to use for situational apps. What is it called ?

1C:Enterprise

Re: Bubble – Visual Programming

#98

Post by coldtea »

brucephillips wrote: post #32
WhitneyLand wrote: post #26

Professional programmers often scoff at these kinds of tools, a lot of time for good reason. However I believe that with the right approach such a system could also speed development for a lot of serious and complex development efforts. It would have to use standard pro level libraries and tools underneath, with the easy UI being essentially and abstraction over of subset of the functionality. This would allow it to…

If by "easy UI" you mean a WYSIWYG UI editor, those exist for most serious development of applications, such as for Windows, iOS, and Android, though they still aren't the norm in web for some reason. But if by "easy UI" you mean the visual programming language, or the graphical DDL, then I'm skeptical it has any value to programmers. No programmer I know would want to use a visual programming language at all, even w…

>No programmer I know would want to use a visual programming language at all, even with an option to fall into a full text-based programming language.

You'd be surprised. The biggest programming language in actual use is Excel -- which is a case of a visual programming language (turing complete at that), even if it has cells in a grid as opposed to some flow diagram.

And lots of people are programming with visual languages inside tools like compositing pipelines, musical environments like Max/MSP, CAD and 3D packages, business logic definition apps and so on -- with the most popular case perhaps being visual game engines.

Re: Bubble – Visual Programming

#99

Post by baldfat »

coldtea wrote: post #98
brucephillips wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "easy UI" you mean a WYSIWYG UI editor, those exist for most serious development of applications, such as for Windows, iOS, and Android, though they still aren't the norm in web for some reason. But if by "easy UI" you mean the visual programming language, or the graphical DDL, then I'm skeptical it has any value to programmers. No programmer I know would want to use a visual programming language at all, even w…

> No programmer I know would want to use a visual programming language at all, even with an option to fall into a full text-based programming language. You'd be surprised. The biggest programming language in actual use is Excel -- which is a case of a visual programming language (turing complete at that), even if it has cells in a grid as opposed to some flow diagram. And lots of people are programming with visual la…

> The biggest programming language in actual use is Excel

Which has cost companies and investors billions and is the most accident prone. http://www.zdnet.com/article/excel-errors-microsofts-spreads...

No Version control no way to audit your code. These also come with visual programs.

Re: Bubble – Visual Programming

#100

Post by carlmr »

coldtea wrote: post #98
brucephillips wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "easy UI" you mean a WYSIWYG UI editor, those exist for most serious development of applications, such as for Windows, iOS, and Android, though they still aren't the norm in web for some reason. But if by "easy UI" you mean the visual programming language, or the graphical DDL, then I'm skeptical it has any value to programmers. No programmer I know would want to use a visual programming language at all, even w…

> No programmer I know would want to use a visual programming language at all, even with an option to fall into a full text-based programming language. You'd be surprised. The biggest programming language in actual use is Excel -- which is a case of a visual programming language (turing complete at that), even if it has cells in a grid as opposed to some flow diagram. And lots of people are programming with visual la…

Human language evolved over years to let us describe everything in detail on a very abstract level. Computer languages inherit a lot these features from human language.

My favorite analogy: Visual programming languages are like a foreigner going to a Korean McDonald's. He can grunt at pictures and get what he points at, but he can only do a limited set of things that were envisioned by the menu planner. You can't get the burger without tomatoes by grunting.

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