Live data from Hacker News

“Anti-perks”: what our startup doesn't want in our office

blog.even.com

91–100 of 120 posts

Re: “Anti-perks”: what our startup doesn't want in our office

#91
post #63

Something that stuck out for me: > "Don’t get me wrong — Even has plenty of perks. Our team is offered paid vacation time (with a minimum number of days off)" Is paid vacation time really a perk? Is vacation time usually unpaid in the US or something? Or maybe the perk is the minimum number of days off?

It's a major perk in the US. Vacation time is basically reserved for management or C-Suite folks, especially if it's paid.

Wow unbelievable, I never knew that. For someone who works in EU this sounds ridiculous.

Re: “Anti-perks”: what our startup doesn't want in our office

#92

Unfortunately, sounds like they fail at the minimum criteria for a sane workweek. In particular: "our team tends to work long days". Who cares about anti-perks or perks if you're expected to work crazy hours?

Sadly, there's no way around this for a new company. It's how the market works today, and competition is fierce. I think the idea is to add another opportunity to stretch, go out, socialize, and talk about something other than work, which is probably beneficial when working hard problems.

No way around lost productivity, the possibly catastrophic cost of increased bad decisions and mistakes resulting from fatigue and sleep deprivation, and loss of key employees due to burnout?

Re: “Anti-perks”: what our startup doesn't want in our office

#93
post #47
post #36

Thank you for not allowing pets. I both dislike and am allergic to dogs, and it annoys me when people think it's no big deal to bring their dog into the office. This is not your home, this is a professional workspace that we all share.

I'm also very surprised by this "perk" that seems to be so widespread in the US. I sometimes feel like "dog people" can't internalize the fact that just because they like dogs, not everybody does! :) Our office is "dog friendly", but we have some rooms where dogs are forbidden to make sure allergic employees have a space to go to. Still don't really like this policy.

That doesn't even make much sense, unless the dog-free rooms are on a different floor those with bad allergies will still suffer I imagine.

Re: “Anti-perks”: what our startup doesn't want in our office

#94
post #65
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't they just pay more? I feel like one of the primary things I want a salary for is meals.

Perks have the advantage of being pre-tax. So if you get $10 worth of perk (assuming it's something you'd buy anyway), it only actually costs you somewhere between $5-8 depending on your tax bracket.

Why? That is, is there some specific social good that the authors of the tax code were intending to accomplish by allowing companies to pay for lunch for their employees pre-tax, or is this an unintended consequence ("loophole") of some other coherent goal?

It seems to me like there isn't any reason for a tax code to allow not paying taxes if the company is calling a transfer of money to the employee for the purpose of buying food as a "perk", and yet tax the same money if it's called a "salary".

Re: “Anti-perks”: what our startup doesn't want in our office

#95
I'm someone who has mostly worked for startups, but I just came off a stint working for IBM (Canada), and the difference in the "office culture" at IBM from the startups I had worked at kind of blew me away.

IBM's office culture was basically built around two ideas: 1. that everyone working on a team would be spread around the globe (not necessarily at first, but certainly as IBM had to send them around to do sales engineering.) And 2. that workflows should be designed to accommodate people with disabilities.

This led to a number of "features" that I will miss in any future startup:

• The offices have some "open-office"-like areas... but also cubicles, and individual closed offices, and meeting rooms. All of these—except for some of the cubicles—are flex-allocated. You just sit down at an empty one, and clean up after yourself when you go. IBM even has "work centres"—offices just for people (and entire teams) travelling, with no permanent staff other than ops+janitorial. This office design style resembles EC2 (far moreso than your average co-working space): you can "allocate" part of a floor to be a team's office on any given day, and that space will be some other team's office on some other day. This is just as much about the culture (you don't "stake your claim" to the space, any more than you would a library desk) as it is about the amenities.

• Everything is done online, mostly over text. (Yes, yes, Lotus Notes. But also, increasingly, Slack.) You don't have to come to the office; you can work at a coffee shop, or from home, or from any other IBM office/work centre. You just need to sign into the IBM VPN and you're good. Even weekly meetings are electronic (though often over voice- or video-conference rather than text.) You know who this is great for? People in a wheelchair. People with a sprained ankle. People with social anxiety. New parents, past their leave period, who still want to spend most of their time with their kids. People who don't speak English well but can type and read it just fine. A hundred more types of people, who SV never bothers to hire.

• There's a no-pets policy. There's a no-perfume policy. There's a no-music policy. There's probably a bunch more. The spirit of these isn't "no silliness"; it's "make allowances for people with sensory processing disorders, even if you aren't aware that anyone you know here has one, because it's their right not to tell you."

• IBM offices don't offer amenities like food (other than some meh coffee), and they usually aren't close to anything, rather being in an office park that with low land-values. If you're going to the office, you eat breakfast before you go, and you bring a lunch with you. You eat dinner after going home. Which, of course, means that everyone wants to go home at a reasonable hour, so that they'll still have time—and energy—to make and eat dinner. Going to the office is like taking a day-trip. You pack for it.

To sum up, IBM basically assumes that everyone working there is a responsible adult with a private life that is important to them, that is respected as private by others; and that, while at work, they'd like to get some freaking work done so that they can be done with it and go home.

If anyone has heard of a start-up that follows this philosophy, I'd love to work there. (Otherwise, I'm open to starting a chain of co-working spaces that operate like IBM's work-centres, and give all their member-startups a VPN Intranet and a PBX for voice-conferenced meetings.)

Re: “Anti-perks”: what our startup doesn't want in our office

#96

Pet-friendly offices: I’m sure having a pet visit the office once would be a treat, but every day quickly can become a burden on the team. Disagree, given the observation that pets (provided they're well-behaved, are well-groomed etc) reduce stress and promote empathy. It's just a question of measure - somewhere between "once" and "every day" there are these notions of "once in a while" or "from time to time". Which…

Some people have allergies.

Re: “Anti-perks”: what our startup doesn't want in our office

#97
post #21

> But as we grow in size, we also plan to grow in the diversity of our perspectives and backgrounds — which is even more reason not to add a bunch of extraneous or overly specific perks. Especially as our team diversifies, we can’t (and shouldn’t) strive to have a one-size-fits-all office or benefits package. This is a great point about bringing in diverse hires. If you optimize your perks to appeal to you, then you'…

> Having a more typically "professional" office setting, combined with some more flexible perks (like flex funds for wellness), strikes me as a good way to avoid filtering people out and inadvertently selecting for an overly specific company culture.

This is an extraordinarily good insight.

> I love Quake III, but he doesn't, and he feels like it's both a waste of time and a reinforcement of a specific type of company culture that he doesn't really relate to.

Even if I did love Quake III proper (hey I am prone to OpenArena from time to time :)) I could not imagine anything that would force me to hate any given thing more than doing it as part of Mandatory Fun Time.

Re: “Anti-perks”: what our startup doesn't want in our office

#98
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a major perk in the US. Vacation time is basically reserved for management or C-Suite folks, especially if it's paid.

Wow unbelievable, I never knew that. For someone who works in EU this sounds ridiculous.

For many years, my dad was given 4 days off a year for both sick and vacation time. Any other time was unpaid. He changed jobs last year, and I haven't asked him if his new job is the same or not.

It is absolutely ridiculous.

Re: “Anti-perks”: what our startup doesn't want in our office

#99
post #33

"I’m sure having a pet visit the office once would be a treat, but every day quickly can become a burden on the team." Would people who are burdened by an office dog please share your experiences?

I don't like dogs, and don't think that animals belong in the work place. They smell and are distracting.

Re: “Anti-perks”: what our startup doesn't want in our office

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't want dogs or cats in the office. Especially cats with all this stuff coming out about toxoplasmosis.

Toxoplasmosis has been linked to anger Issues with humans- so to keep Sales aggressive- release the tiger.

When they say aggresize sales, last thing they mean is angry dude smashing phone in the middle of discussion with potential client.

Just saying, aggressivity is not same as aggressively.

Post reply on HN