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Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

nytimes.com

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Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there something wrong with societal bias? Especially towards ideals like personal liberty?

The word "bias" probably should have tipped you off

Or not? One can be biased toward life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, or any number of generally-agreeable things.

I'm biased against death, and toward life. I don't generally feel a need to disclose that, since it's a widely-shared bias.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#93
post #85

Just today I had someone casually mention that he thought women should not be allowed to vote. This is the Netherlands, the person is Dutch, not muslim or some other culture that I might not be used to, we're master's students... nothing out of the ordinary. And the third person in the conversation apparently agreed, calling it bad to prohibit it in principle but "seeing the effects of allowing women to vote" he agre…

Yeah you're right that is weird especially that both agreed, are you sure they weren't trolling you? But I do agree with voting irrationally being a problem in democracy. I just don't think it's only women that do that.

I'd love it if, in order to vote, you had to name one policy position that the party you are voting for holds. I know we want everyone to vote so we can say participation is high but I'd rather only those interested enough to know what's going on voted.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#94
post #85

Just today I had someone casually mention that he thought women should not be allowed to vote. This is the Netherlands, the person is Dutch, not muslim or some other culture that I might not be used to, we're master's students... nothing out of the ordinary. And the third person in the conversation apparently agreed, calling it bad to prohibit it in principle but "seeing the effects of allowing women to vote" he agre…

A creepily common idea among certain libertarians.

"Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of 'capitalist democracy' into an oxymoron."

– the inimitable Peter Thiel

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#95

The use of "Agrees" in the headline reveals societal bias. "Decides" would have been better.

No, the use of the word “agrees” conveys the fact that there was a party other than the one making the decision requesting the outcome, while “decides" is less specific. There is no “bias” revealed except one toward communicating facts.

Now, if there was editorializing about the desirability of the decision, e.g., “finally agrees”, you'd have a point about bias (though the would be bias of those involved in the headline, not necessarily societal bias.)

Of course, there is a widespread (though not universal) societal bias toward treating women at least as human beings with the basic right to participate indepebdently in society, and I don't have any problem with that. But nothing in the headline points to that bias.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#96
post #76

Serious question: how safe is it to drive with a burqa?

Germany has recently banned burqas while driving[1], but not because they were considered unsafe. Instead, the ban forbids having anything that makes you impossible to identify in camera.

So my guess is that they are not really unsafe, or they would have been banned earlier for that specific reason.

[1] http://www.dw.com/en/german-bundesrat-approves-burqa-ban-for...

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#98
post #19

"Low oil prices have limited the government jobs that many Saudis have long relied on, and the kingdom is trying to push more citizens, including women, into gainful employment. But some working Saudi women say hiring private drivers to get them to and from work eats up much of their pay, diminishing the incentive to work." I'm guessing that this is the biggest driver - Saudi Arabia just cannot afford to not allow th…

denial of liberty is expensive.

If a country thinks it's okay to throw half of its brain power down the sinkhole, sure, why not, go ahead and do it. Just don't start crying afterwards that other countries are zooming past you on the highway to progress.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#99
post #19

"Low oil prices have limited the government jobs that many Saudis have long relied on, and the kingdom is trying to push more citizens, including women, into gainful employment. But some working Saudi women say hiring private drivers to get them to and from work eats up much of their pay, diminishing the incentive to work." I'm guessing that this is the biggest driver - Saudi Arabia just cannot afford to not allow th…

It's a strange statement because low oil prices are caused by Saudi Arabia's own policies.

Re: Saudi Arabia Agrees to Let Women Drive

#100
post #75
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite example is the South Carolina law that was finally rescinded a few years back, where bars had to serve their mixed alcoholic drinks with liquor poured from single-serving 'airline' style bottles. A colossal waste of time and resources, but the kicker was the arguments against rescinding the law-- some folks arguing that DUI rates would go through the roof and The Children (TM) would all die, and others ar…

You should take a look at Utah's liquor laws some time. Perfect example of what happens when people who don't drink decide to legislate alcohol.

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