I strongly believe in voting with my attention and/or money against ideals that are abhorrent to me, so I thought I'd put it out there for others in the same boat.
Bootstrapping Urbit from Ethereum
91–100 of 172 posts
Re: Bootstrapping Urbit from Ethereum
#92Huh, apparently the creator[1] of Urbit is one of the original folks behind the very gross dark enlightenment school of thought, and also associated with Peter Thiel through his startup. Well, that saps my interest in the project rather quickly. I'm sure there will be alternatives from people whose principles I'd actually be happy to support. I strongly believe in voting with my attention and/or money against ideals…
Re: Bootstrapping Urbit from Ethereum
#93Huh, apparently the creator[1] of Urbit is one of the original folks behind the very gross dark enlightenment school of thought, and also associated with Peter Thiel through his startup. Well, that saps my interest in the project rather quickly. I'm sure there will be alternatives from people whose principles I'd actually be happy to support. I strongly believe in voting with my attention and/or money against ideals…
The idea that certain people are radioactive needs to die. Even if someone is a blatant racist, one way to deal with them is to take their good ideas and use them as your own. You can't do that if you're morally opposed to even understanding it.
Re: Bootstrapping Urbit from Ethereum
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, I get that. So I guess my question is: in what ways justifying new terminology are the approaches taken by Urbit different? And whether or not they're different enough from prior art to merit obscure new terms, are those differences worthwhile, or are they different for the sake of being different? Because not all of the last 30 odd years of systems and programming research was pointless.
> not all of the last 30 odd years of systems and programming research was pointless. Indeed, which is why it's a shame our primary server OSes (Unix-likes) can't incorporate them. Urbit can. As for what are the approaches different, there have been many words spilled over that, but here's a few examples to wit, most of which exist in one or two other systems, but aren't widely used: - All events are transactions, do…
Re: Bootstrapping Urbit from Ethereum
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Others, including myself, have noticed this too and it reminds us of something else a little closer to home: namely, what happens to Scientologists and the like after they've been in the cult a while. Even the Scientologists who later leave still think in terms of engrams and body thetans. I think Curtis Yarvin is a master huckster and wordsmith, but near as I can tell what's good about Urbit isn't original and what'…
>>finally he plays the same semantic shellgame with his words he plays with his political essays, to convince you that the horrible political views he has aren't so horrible. I suggest you leave your ideological biases out of your assessment of Urbit the technology. We all have our political beliefs - mine are hard libertarian, yours are hard feminist/leftist - but hopefully we can put those aside when assessing tech…
Re: Bootstrapping Urbit from Ethereum
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
The idea that certain people are radioactive needs to die. Even if someone is a blatant racist, one way to deal with them is to take their good ideas and use them as your own. You can't do that if you're morally opposed to even understanding it.
I agree. Which is why I can under no circumstance support Urbit, but would be happy to see a parallel project without the toxic founder. I hope most people feel their hearts constrict when they read up about what Curtis and his ilk believe[1] and don't immediately reach for the "PC culture" bugbear with comments like mine. To me, it's clear that zero dollars should be going towards the sustenance of such ideas. [1]:…
https://medium.com/@curtis.yarvin/why-you-should-come-to-lam...
He seems like a reasonable, intelligent person, and people have gone out of their way to mischaracterize what he did say and to label him a racist.
He was also writing under a pen name, and -- believe it or not -- roleplaying is common recreation. Just because Moldbug believed something doesn't mean Chris believed those things.
All in all, I think this is just another example of the insular tribalism present in all of Silicon Valley. It's ironic that the place that prides itself on being the most tolerant and the most progressive is in fact so victorian and reductionist that their ideas can't withstand a simple debate.
Easier to label and shun, eh? I'm not a fan.
It's somewhat ridiculous that I have to add a disclaimer that I don't share any of their ideology, even in secret. I'm proud of my beliefs, and this has nothing to do with the politics at play. If you're going to be inclusive, then be inclusive. To shun someone so intelligent and to reduce their entire body of work to a few glib sentences isn't a productive strategy.
From my perspective, it seems strange that anyone could read that Medium post and come away hating Chris. He's clearly here to talk tech, not politics. So what's the problem?
When you join a Twitter mob and serve as a sort of informal government — by deciding, for instance, who can speak at a conference — you’re feeding your inner chimpanzee. It feels good. Your conscience may be convinced that it’s spiritually the right thing to do. But your limbic system is just plain high. Twitter is a drug cartel. The drug is power. Or at least, apparent power.
Hear, hear. When you seek to suppress an idea, people like me get curious. Why are you so worried that Chris is the founder? It makes me want to dig in to their beliefs and decide for myself.
Don't you see? Speaking out like this actively helps the very side you're trying to defeat. They come off looking reasonable, whereas your argument boils down to "He's toxic because reasons."
One of the most persuasive things you could do in this situation would be to post a quote written by Chris. Posting a quote from Moldbug would be the second most persuasive thing. Failing either of those, are we supposed to just take your word for it that the dude should be excluded from society?
This whole "label and exclude" thing is for the birds. Why not judge ideas instead of people?
Re: Bootstrapping Urbit from Ethereum
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm one of those people that get it, so I'll try to explain it without going off the deep end and waxing poetically about planets or whatever. Urbit is a platform for building decentralized apps. To that end, it's a tightly integrated set of different features that play into that: an identity system so that all the apps can refer to the same people by the same handle, a typed RPC network for easy message sending, and…
This is a good, well-written explanation of the most reasonable, mainstream aspects of Urbit, leaving the impression that it's essentially like a P2P version of AWS Lambda. But of course, that's not all it is. It's also a ground-up reinvention of mainstream functional programming languages like Lisp, built on the foundation of an abstract virtual machine in which the "decrement" operation can be performed natively on…
Re: Bootstrapping Urbit from Ethereum
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a good, well-written explanation of the most reasonable, mainstream aspects of Urbit, leaving the impression that it's essentially like a P2P version of AWS Lambda. But of course, that's not all it is. It's also a ground-up reinvention of mainstream functional programming languages like Lisp, built on the foundation of an abstract virtual machine in which the "decrement" operation can be performed natively on…
I'll admit, Hoon is weird. But complaining about Nock is like complaining about the JavaScript VM. You can JIT it and replace common functions to replace with calls to C functions instead. Nock defines the /results/, not how to get them. Jets are basically just because the Nock spec didn't want to have to outline a bunch of primitives that don't really matter, since they would be replaced with native calls anyways. A…
Also, if Urbit becomes popular other groups will start similar systems and they will be able to interact.
Re: Bootstrapping Urbit from Ethereum
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll admit, Hoon is weird. But complaining about Nock is like complaining about the JavaScript VM. You can JIT it and replace common functions to replace with calls to C functions instead. Nock defines the /results/, not how to get them. Jets are basically just because the Nock spec didn't want to have to outline a bunch of primitives that don't really matter, since they would be replaced with native calls anyways. A…
4,294,967,296 is the number of planets which is a much more than 4 million. Think about a planet as a piece of land more than a phone number. How many people on earth own a piece of land? And when will that reach 4 billion? Also, if Urbit becomes popular other groups will start similar systems and they will be able to interact.
Re: Bootstrapping Urbit from Ethereum
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm one of those people that get it, so I'll try to explain it without going off the deep end and waxing poetically about planets or whatever. Urbit is a platform for building decentralized apps. To that end, it's a tightly integrated set of different features that play into that: an identity system so that all the apps can refer to the same people by the same handle, a typed RPC network for easy message sending, and…
This is a good, well-written explanation of the most reasonable, mainstream aspects of Urbit, leaving the impression that it's essentially like a P2P version of AWS Lambda. But of course, that's not all it is. It's also a ground-up reinvention of mainstream functional programming languages like Lisp, built on the foundation of an abstract virtual machine in which the "decrement" operation can be performed natively on…
Odd, I saw the rationale early on, when I was just reading the documentation for Urbit. If you've ever seen Hoon code, you'll notice it has a lot of punctuation in it. Have a look at tumblr.hoon[0]. If you want to speak with fellow Hoon programmers in person and communicate fluidly, it's nice to have a compact, standardized-within-Urbit way of saying things like "$%"[1] out loud.
Now, at this point you're probably wondering "why would they have names that are all punctuation?". As far as I can tell, this keeps the identifiers short and of uniform length. From what I understand, one of the problems that they're trying to solve is that single-assignment code in, say, Lisp tends to flow down and to the right. They're trying to limit rightward visual creep, as I understand it.
Now, I'm not convinced that focusing on standard-library-identifier length is a good idea. Early C linkers could only handle function names that were six characters or shorter, and constraints like the ones in Hoon's standard library sound similarly arbitrary and likely to lead to unintuitive names like "strchr".
[0]: https://github.com/urbit/examples/blob/master/app/tumblr.hoo...
[1]: buccen, which I pronounce as "buck sen". It's used for making tagged unions, which reminds me of Erlang/Elixir {:ok, Value}/{:error, Reason} value-passing style.