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I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

houstonchronicle.com

91–100 of 147 posts

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#91
post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

I'm not sure why you got downvoted, perhaps downvoters would chime in? I get that local organizations deal with some situations better than some large, clumsy bureaucracy but I tend to agree with wnissen, if this continues as trend relying on a patchwork of individuals (heroic as they may be). I wish there was a non-military or less-military domestic version of this, I've considered joining the national guard for thi…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_defense_force#Active_sta...

Not entirely non-military, but typically IIRC military aspects are almost entirely defense only.. so for example barring a USA invasion, or perhaps a complete depletion of the entire national guard system, you're not going to war.

https://tmd.texas.gov/news

clearly involved in this case.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#92
post #13

The part of this story I don't understand myself, is how so many people had bandwidth to download and use an app, in an environment in which I would have assumed both power and the cell network–especially data–were limping or just down. The implicit question is, what percentage of people in the disaster zone did, and did not, have a channel out through this app? Does this story represent the 10% case or the 50% case…

Some of the cellphone network can operate with no wired power or network. Towers can have p2p microwave links and battery backups. That doesn't really answer your question about how/if/how-long it worked this week. http://ups-battery-backup.com/cell-phone-ups.php https://enterprise.spectrum.com/solutions/carrier-services/c...

Some of the ones near me even have small wind generators.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#93
post #81

We used Zello when we were down there with a boat. We are just regular people, not part of anyone's navy, just a few guys with a boat that were part of a much larger civilian response to this disaster. About the Cajun Navy - There were so many people responding to this disaster wanting to help with their time and boats that many times we found ourselves staging to launch but ultimately unable to get in the water beca…

Thanks for pitching in. Can you talk about the "active map"? Who hosted it, who was able to add or remove a report, etc.?

I'm pretty sure I stumbled on a map that was linked through an article I read before we left. I believe the article linked to HarveyRelief or HarveyRescue. It may have been a Buzzfeed article like this one:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/maryanngeorgantopoulos/crowdscourin...

The maps are down now as I believe the website went dark once the main flooding danger in Houston was past.

The map appeared to show markers all over the Texas Coast color-coded based on the type of request. The user was able to select a marker and in the left pane a descriptive entry gave information about the address, the number of people requesting rescue including a breakdown of #adults versus #children or elderly. Many posts had telephone contact numbers and each one had an entry from the person requesting assistance granting permission to post their request. Something like an "I Agree" entry after their contact info in the post. I visited the website while it was up and looked at the help request submission part and it was a pretty simple dialog set collecting the needed information along with an "I Agree" or a "Yes" button at the end granting the website the permission to post.

Early problems were predictable. Some of the posts should have been expired because the people had been rescued. Handling the updating of the information required the rescuers to confirm that the people had been rescued so that marker could be cleared. We ended up following several leads that had to be from the previous day. When we arrived at the target address the streets were dry, families were walking pets and kids were riding bikes in the street in one case. A couple of others also involved places where waters had receded and one involved a non-existent address that turned out to be along the beltway between two businesses.

The website did clear many of the older posts and altered the color-coding so it would be clear what you were heading for - medical problem needing assistance, people trapped needing rescue, etc.

It was quite handy. I know there were other maps including one maintained by the Cajun Navy that was similar to the one we used.

There is room for improvement in the maps and in how they coordinate with rescue assets. Timeliness is important and older posts in neighborhoods known to be heavily visited by rescuers should be cross-checked using contact info provided. A lot of traffic on the Cajun Navy channels was people confirming that a rescue needed to happen or that one had already occurred for a particular address.

I believe that the actual requests for assistance on the map I used came from those needing the help since many of them were from someone who was posting for a person needing help who had no access to phone or other communication network. I don't know who had the ability to remove the markers once they were placed but I know that feature by itself needed improvement in tracking rescues that had already occurred.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#94
post #4

Why don't we have people doing this dispatch professionally? What are FEMA and the Red Cross doing if not helping coordinate emergency response when the normal channels are overwhelmed? Don't get me wrong, this person, and all those who aid the rescue efforts, is a hero. Don't the people who do this deserve to get paid and have resources for dealing with PTSD? And don't the victims deserve organized, professional res…

How do you scale that in a hurry? Do you have people doing this full time sitting idle waiting for a full scale disaster to hit? You already have the National Guard, but how can that force cover an area the size of the Netherlands — with a thousand boats ready to go? Texas had literally thousands of rescues. It’s ridiculous to suggest that any government force can deploy a force large enough to handle that within a d…

while I will agree this is a great example of how USAians, esp Texans will band together as others have pointed out, being a human is not really something we have a monopoly on here..

as for 'the south':

see also sandy recovery efforts

see also people getting shot when they shouldn't have in nola for being in the wrong neighborhood and having the wrong skin color..

that said, we do have more boats, monster trucks, jetskis, and guns, and arent afraid to use them (even to rescue national guard trucks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAvNd7eH9MA)

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#95
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for pitching in. Can you talk about the "active map"? Who hosted it, who was able to add or remove a report, etc.?

I know of a few people who worked on maps in Houston (and helped some out in minor ways), but AFAIK there wasn't one single map that "won out". I was the one who created the Cajun Navy's crowd-sourced rescue mapping strategy, though, while helping out with the 2016 Louisiana floods, so I can give a little insight. At first, I just saw that people were posting requests for rescue in various Facebook groups and becomin…

Thanks for your efforts. We ended up using a different map that was very similar to the one you linked.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#96
post #44

The part of this story I don't understand myself, is how so many people had bandwidth to download and use an app, in an environment in which I would have assumed both power and the cell network–especially data–were limping or just down. The implicit question is, what percentage of people in the disaster zone did, and did not, have a channel out through this app? Does this story represent the 10% case or the 50% case…

I understand the security of the responder's aspect, but I was curious why the people couldn't make their own tickets. Why do they need to use an app, and talk to a dispatcher?

Probably because they were terrified for their lives, crouching on top of their kitchen counters trying to stay out of the snake infested water.

Not a great environment to be trying to get _just_ the right level of zoom to hit the form input field on your smartphone.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#97

I wish there were a disaster militia, with something like quarterly weekend trainings, with some FEMA sponsorship but still independent. It would be fun to practice ham communications and boat rescue anyway, and a little bit of practice could have a huge impact when the shit is truly hitting the fan.

Aside from the resources other people mentioned, many counties across the country (and almost all of them in California and the west) have local search and rescue teams. Team member skills range from "ground pounder" to swiftwater rescue, urban search and rescue, ICS (command). Within California, there are mutual aid requests flying between counties almost all the time, along with support from CalOES, who coordinate…

You hit the nail on the head.

Just to add another data point, everything up in Oregon works exactly the same. Monthly meetings, monthly trainings, optional trainings for specialty teams (rope support, trail running, ATV, mountain biking, etc) every week or so, and a call-out once every 1-2 weeks.

If you're even remotely interested in emergency preparedness I highly recommend signing up with a community search and rescue organization.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#98
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Massive resources were wasted with boats lined up in one spot that could've been actively searching somewhere else. I'm on a search & rescue team, and this is usually the chief challenge with "the public" getting involved, there is no established organizational structure. People all mean well, but it is incredibly difficult to utilize a horde of untrained people effectively at the drop of a hat, and it can also make…

> I wonder if a future extension to ICS/NIMS could be, how to plug in these unconventional resources where professional manpower is insufficient. Develop a 2-minute briefing, a point of contact for unconventional resources to report to, a simplified structure & communication network. The most important concepts are pretty simple, and the first responder doesn't need to know that much about it. Great idea, but unfortu…

ICS/NIMS trainings are painful to sit through, but in practice it appears pretty agile to me when implemented faithfully.

Instructors will tell you, it's only when you want to be part of the management structure that you really need to know what is going on. Even today, the bottom rung mostly just needs to know where to check in, who they report to, and how to communicate.

I understand your cynicism, and in many places it's applicable. I've noticed however that gov't works developed in the wake of a disaster seems to be pretty solid. Maybe because the project leaders are granted unusual latitude to ignore the lawyers & bureaucrats :)

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should look into whether Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) is available for your area: https://www.ready.gov/community-emergency-response-team If it's not, you may want to work on partnering with local emergency services to get one going.

Isn't that a one off class? Cool, but an organization needs maintenance to be activated well in a pinch.

Doesn't have to be. I have friends who participate in quarterly meetings for their city where they do drills for different emergencies.

Re: I downloaded an app and was part of the Cajun Navy

#100
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why were people lying about rescuers being in danger? Just trolls? I think we would have heard by now if there were pirates out there stealing rescue boats at gunpoint.

It happened. http://www.thedailybeast.com/volunteers-helping-harvey-victi... The National Guard and Coast Guard are armed and did respond to rescuers being attacked. Not sure if they actually fired back in response, or only forced them to leave.

We saw many official groups - most of the swiftwater rescue teams from central Texas, the National Guard, local fire and police departments, organized volunteer groups including the Texas and Cajun Navies, and the Coast Guard. Of those groups the only ones we encountered who weren't obviously armed were the Coast Guard. They may have had their firearms in their vehicles but they weren't on display.

No one that we talked with fired a shot or was fired at. During the several days that we were down there none of us heard a shot even though at times we were supposedly in the neighborhood where boaters had been attacked. We did find some neighborhoods where civilian boats were not allowed - authorities had blocked access except to Coast Guard, Nat'l Guard or other official group boats. Several of these neighborhoods were along the bayous where a lot of expensive homes were built. It seems unlikely that anyone was going to shoot at a rescuer in those areas.

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