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Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

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Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#91

Post by mikekchar »

fiblye wrote: post #88
mikekchar wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the Filipino nurse situation was a debacle (and for the most part continues to be). However, the government has been routinely extending visas for those involved [0]. The reality of the situation is that it is very hard to live here if you are a foreigner with that kind of job. In the town where I live something like 22 of the 130 or so foreigners who live here are Filipino nurses. I've met some who have stayed…

Are you speaking specifically about your farming town losing 10% of its population? Because I also live in Shizuoka-ken near the countryside and population decline is nowhere near 10%/year. It's been pretty much the same for 20 years now. http://www.citypopulation.de/php/japan-admin.php?adm1id=22 But there is a definite decline in the liveliness of small towns, but that's due to migration to other towns and cities.

Hmm... you are correct. I was stupidly repeating unverified information I heard on a news report. I should know better :-( Actually, that's great news for me!

BTW, feel free to ping me at my username on gmail. It would be great to meet someone else in this area! I'm also interested in writing games (and I wonder if we've met a few years ago... although that person said they wanted to make iPhone games)

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#92

Post by darklajid »

mikekchar wrote: post #49

This is an opinion piece backed up with practically no information whatsoever. If you want to know about immigration policy in Japan, you need look no further Japan's ministry of foreign affairs website. For example, here are the categories where you can get a long term visa [0] You will notice there is a points system [1]. You need 70 points to get in. A degree gives you 10 points. A salary of ~$100K gives you 40 po…

I just got a (admittedly: limited to 2 years for now, bound to the corporate sponsor) working visa for Singapore. Looking at your description:

- I don't have a recognized degree (I do, but .. it's complicated)

- I never had, nor will for the foreseeable future, reach 100k USD (DE doesn't pay like that, neither will SG in the future based on sources like Glassdoor etc.)

- I'm over 30

I guess what I'm trying to say is: For me the list you provided is merely a curiosity and doesn't feel like I would have a good way to migrate to Japan if I'd like to. It was trivial for Singapore. "Incredibly unfortunate circumstances" seem to imply that you believe that nearly anyone can check all the boxes. Which for the salary requirement alone seems rather insane from my European point of view.

That said: I have no clue about immigration requirements for Germany, so I cannot compare Japan to my home country. DE might be worse.

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#93

Post by comstock »

neptunespear wrote: post #85
comstock wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I'd rather hear evidence supporting the argument that any of these companies could be called "the future of automation". Anything I say, will by its nature be anecdotal. But do you have anything to support the assertion that they're actually doing amazing things?

I never said that Preferred/Mujin/LeapMind would be the future of automation. I just said that in my uneducated opinion, having followed these companies for some time now, I feel like they may be better equipped to handle "new economy" automation--shift from hardware to software, shift from closed-off proprietary standards to open collaboration. Aka the anathema of Sony, Sharp, Fujitsu, KDDI, etc.

Can you show any evidence that they are better equipped? Other than just their vague mission statements or general attitude?

I also prefer open standards, I think they're generally "a good thing". However big companies (like Sony) always seem to prefer closed standards... I guess it promotes lock-in.

It would be nice to have something backing up these statements though.

Personally, while I don't much like there working style. I still see companies like Sony providing a lot of fundamental value in, for example, imaging sensors.

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#94

Post by flukus »

matt4077 wrote: post #87
alphaalpha101 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol. I'm not anti-immigration, don't be so defensive, and I'm also not talking about the US. Stop bringing up the US. This is a thread about Japan and I'm talking about New Zealand. The New Zealand government really wants people to believe that we're experiencing 'economic growth'. But while they might be technically right, they're effectively wrong. Economic growth that is so much entirely from immigration that we'r…

Lol yourself, and don't be so wrong. Here's per-capita GDP growth in New Zealand, showing that there is real growth after normalising for changes in population: https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&...

Here is the GDP per capita growth: https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&... .

When you shave ~1% off to account for immigration, then shave off another ~1% for inflation and you can see the hidden recessions.

And then you get into where that economic growth is going, which isn't to the bottom 80% of society. The end result looks a lot like the US median household income: https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=c8op9mhgodplq_&...

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#95

Post by matt4077 »

flukus wrote: post #94
matt4077 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol yourself, and don't be so wrong. Here's per-capita GDP growth in New Zealand, showing that there is real growth after normalising for changes in population: https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&...

Here is the GDP per capita growth: https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&... . When you shave ~1% off to account for immigration, then shave off another ~1% for inflation and you can see the hidden recessions. And then you get into where that economic growth is going, which isn't to the bottom 80% of society. The end result looks a lot like the US median household income: https://www.google.com/…

I'm sorry, but I don't think you're arguing in good faith here. "Per capita" means "per head", i. e. per person. That means that any population growth due to immigration is already factored in.

If you click on the little question mark, you'll also learn that inflation is also factored in already:

"Aggregates are based on constant 2010 U.S. dollars."

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#96

Post by hkmurakami »

mikekchar wrote: post #81
jpatokal wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan's primary problem, though, is not a lack of skilled professionals (although as someone involved in hiring bilingual IT professionals there, I can assure you that's a problem too), but a lack of unskilled/low-skilled workers to work in agriculture, nursing, etc. And Japan is not at all keen on this type of immigration. As a simple example, Japan invited a bunch of Filipino nurses to work in Japan for a while, an…

Yes, the Filipino nurse situation was a debacle (and for the most part continues to be). However, the government has been routinely extending visas for those involved [0]. The reality of the situation is that it is very hard to live here if you are a foreigner with that kind of job. In the town where I live something like 22 of the 130 or so foreigners who live here are Filipino nurses. I've met some who have stayed…

I remember visiting my grandmother many years ago in an assisted care facility in Kyoto for people with dementia/Alzheimer's and was struck by how hard the nurses work was. I shudder and am in awe even recalling it today.

I agree with everything you've said regarding cultural assimilation when you can't speak the language. If you're a knowledge worth in a major city, then you can get by since people respect you and your peers can speak some level of Japanese. But as unskilled labor life would be very difficult.

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#97

Post by hkmurakami »

rdtsc wrote: post #68
ericdykstra wrote: post #63

Here's a more in-depth look at the issue of immigration vs automation as it relates to Japan, from 2 Japanese economists: http://www.japanpolicyforum.jp/archives/economy/pt2014103018... My commentary with support from that article follows: A country with the population of Japan has no chance of maintaining a higher absolute GDP than countries with multiples of their population and more land to expand population. A po…

> Is Japan a magical land of far-advanced technology Is the technology really that far advanced. I understand it was in the 80s maybe? None of the devices I have are made by Japanese companies. None of the software I use is developed in Japan primarily. My car is but that's about it, but I picked it because of reliability not because of high tech features.

It was legitimately advanced up until the mid 90's or so wrt consumer electronics. Imo it's well behind the states now for sure as the most advanced economies has shifted to post manufacturing service sectors.

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#98

Post by hkmurakami »

fzeroracer wrote: post #83
rdtsc wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is Japan a magical land of far-advanced technology Is the technology really that far advanced. I understand it was in the 80s maybe? None of the devices I have are made by Japanese companies. None of the software I use is developed in Japan primarily. My car is but that's about it, but I picked it because of reliability not because of high tech features.

Software development is still viewed as being a 'lesser' or 'menial' career in Japan by larger corporations. That's why you see so little software come out of Japan these days and also why so many Japanese websites are disasters of design. Granted this has been slowly changing because of startups spinning up as well as foreign company HQs. Still, wages for developers in Japan are terribly low in most scenarios.

Something to keep in mind is that "software" (usually meaning system integration) is distinct from "web services companies" in Japan.

They've made significant headway in the latter at least for consumer services.

Re: Aging Japan Wants Automation, Not Immigration

#100

Post by StudyAnimal »

darklajid wrote: post #92
mikekchar wrote: post #49

This is an opinion piece backed up with practically no information whatsoever. If you want to know about immigration policy in Japan, you need look no further Japan's ministry of foreign affairs website. For example, here are the categories where you can get a long term visa [0] You will notice there is a points system [1]. You need 70 points to get in. A degree gives you 10 points. A salary of ~$100K gives you 40 po…

I just got a (admittedly: limited to 2 years for now, bound to the corporate sponsor) working visa for Singapore. Looking at your description: - I don't have a recognized degree (I do, but .. it's complicated) - I never had, nor will for the foreseeable future, reach 100k USD (DE doesn't pay like that, neither will SG in the future based on sources like Glassdoor etc.) - I'm over 30 I guess what I'm trying to say is:…

Germany is very immigrant friendly. No cultural bullshit, everyone speaks English and German is easy to learn. Fuck Japan they are just putting up bullshit barriers cos they are racist. Stay in germany.
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