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Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

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Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#91

Post by devmunchies »

hackermailman wrote: post #80
mooreds wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remote work is great for so many reasons. Off the top of my head: For the company: * less office space expense * bigger talent pool * low cost benefit * increased documentation * encourages the trend towards outcome based management (as opposed to butts in seats) For the programmer: * more control over their work environment * more control over their time * no "commuting" subsidy for their employers * arbitrage paysc…

One of the downsides is managers think we don't do anything all day as they can't stand over us monitoring for efficiency, so insist we are available at a whim on Slack, which makes Slack the new open office where you have to stop reasoning about what you're building and answer somebody's meme post on Slack or a manager's musings that would've been an email in the past you could reply to later. To me this is just as…

I've been looking into https://twistapp.com/ for the reasons you said about slack.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#92

Post by sitkack »

kuharich wrote: post #23

Old Microsoft: it was a BillG ethic: anyone touching software got an office: software design engineers, PM's, QA, even admins ... it allowed one to be quiet and focus. And signaled to co-workers - do not disturb ...

I was a contractor at MS many moons ago, I got an entire office to myself. Later when we had a crunch, we had to double up, but it was both perm and contract, not contractor specific. There was no lack of collab due to offices, close your door when in the zone. Open in it when accepting visitors. Absolutely loved it.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#93

Post by existencebox »

qq66 wrote: post #84
Chris911 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most new buildings at Microsoft now have open office plans.

This is mostly due to employee demand (although some employees are very angry about it).

Microsoftie here. I haven't seen any indication for it to be due to employee demand. The vast majority of engineers on my team, and my last N teams, have agreed it was top down from leadership; and even those that preferred open offices agreed that cost cutting and space utilization are likely driving factors.

To contribute to the broader discussion; SOME teams here still have offices, but it's a dying breed. I consider myself very lucky that I found one that did, and it was certainly a factor in my choice.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#94

Post by amorphid »

msukmanowsky wrote: post #42

Parse.ly is 100% remote and I've got a pretty sweet home office :)

In the USA... Given real estate prices in tech hubs, who can afford an office space anymore, let alone private offices! I imagine working from home will become the new normal. At least until the FCC allows ISPs to throttle Internet connection speeds so much that ISDN lines start looking attractive. Hopefully they make the phone company maintain those copper phone lines!

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#95

Post by mooreds »

fredley wrote: post #89
mooreds wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remote work is great for so many reasons. Off the top of my head: For the company: * less office space expense * bigger talent pool * low cost benefit * increased documentation * encourages the trend towards outcome based management (as opposed to butts in seats) For the programmer: * more control over their work environment * more control over their time * no "commuting" subsidy for their employers * arbitrage paysc…

I'd list working vacations as a downside. Proper time off, and the expectation that when you are on vacation you are on vacation is really important. I work 1-2 days a week from home and it's a great balance. It gives me time to really get stuck into things with minimal distraction, and be more flexible with time. That said, the days in the office are really useful too - nothing beats sitting with other people physic…

I don't think you should take all your vacations as working, but if you have a limited amount of vacation time and want to take a trip to see family or whatnot, a working vacation can be helpful.

But I agree, time off the grid is important and at least some of your vacation days should be non working.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#96

Post by mooreds »

maxxxxx wrote: post #82
mooreds wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remote work is great for so many reasons. Off the top of my head: For the company: * less office space expense * bigger talent pool * low cost benefit * increased documentation * encourages the trend towards outcome based management (as opposed to butts in seats) For the programmer: * more control over their work environment * more control over their time * no "commuting" subsidy for their employers * arbitrage paysc…

The problem with remote work is that you need very competent managers who understand the work deeply and can keep things together. From my experience there are not too many managers who can lead a remote team competently.

Sorry, I don't understand why competent management is required for remote work but not for non-remote work. Is there some advantage for onsite work in terms of management?

In my experience, incompetent management won't do a good job of leading a team in any circumstances (remote or non remote).

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#97

Post by macNchz »

msluyter wrote: post #28

On the general question of open vs. private offices, my views have tempered over time. The first time I worked in an open office, I hated it. But I've come to realize that a lot depends on the layout of the office and that there are better and worse ways to configure one. The first case -- the one I hated -- had a) long rows of desks, b) bright overhead fluorescent lights, c) a lot of noise due to being in a large ro…

>I'd be curious to know if there's a verifiable correlation between brightness levels and how loud people tend to talk. There's something about a dim room that seems to induce people to lower their voices.

Almost every open office I've worked in has been super loud and disruptive, but one of them that happened to have high ceilings and very soft, warm lighting turned and turned out to be the fantastic. Something about the space gave the room a kind of library-style hush, which I think helped create a feedback loop compelling people to speak quietly and move longer conversations into closed rooms.

I think there's also an element to establishing the culture of how you interact in the open space early on, I think even with the hushed atmosphere of the room itself, it only worked because people had been talking quietly and taking louder conversations into private rooms for as long as they'd been working in the space. Pulling back from a culture of having a boisterous open space to a quiet one is, I think, much harder than doing it from the get-go.

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#99

Post by mooreds »

hackermailman wrote: post #80
mooreds wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remote work is great for so many reasons. Off the top of my head: For the company: * less office space expense * bigger talent pool * low cost benefit * increased documentation * encourages the trend towards outcome based management (as opposed to butts in seats) For the programmer: * more control over their work environment * more control over their time * no "commuting" subsidy for their employers * arbitrage paysc…

One of the downsides is managers think we don't do anything all day as they can't stand over us monitoring for efficiency, so insist we are available at a whim on Slack, which makes Slack the new open office where you have to stop reasoning about what you're building and answer somebody's meme post on Slack or a manager's musings that would've been an email in the past you could reply to later. To me this is just as…

Agreed slack can be a disturbance, but seems like the issue might be management expectations, not what the preferred method for interrupting you is :)

Re: Ask HN: Which companies give programmers offices?

#100

Post by nfriedly »

united893 wrote: post #87
nfriedly wrote: post #85

I have a small private office that I just lease myself. I bicycle in every day and work "remote" for IBM. It's fantastic. If I want some noise, I'll work from home (I have a 3-year old.) The down side is that IBM's management has recently done a 180 on remote working and is now "strongly encouraging" me to move to one of their offices and work in a cubicle. I'm pretty sure they won't actually fire me for not moving,…

> Remote, IBM Did this not affect your role: http://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/ibm-tells-its-...

Yea, before that, everything was roses. After that, I was initially told that I would be fired if I didn't move on site (I was given a few location choices).

I said "no", got a new job lined up, and then about 4 months later, they decided not to fire me (they apparently did let go of some people, I was an exception).

I don't recall the exact phrasing, but it was at least hinted that I shouldn't expect a promotion. I never received any of it in writing, it was all phone calls from the start.

I did get a 5% raise a few months later, though.

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